Live data from Hacker News

U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

bloomberg.com

61–70 of 381 posts

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#61

I suspect they didn't actually crack it. I think it's likely that they just realized the losing battle they were fighting. It sounded like a lot of public sentiment was against the FBI and they were unlikely to win the case (and it seemed like the information wasn't vital to them anyway) so they just gave an excuse to drop the case. This has an additional benefit: rather than having the "boundaries" here be defined b…

They may also be saving their political capital to indict Hillary.

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#62

I would treat this claim with a great deal of skepticism. However, this is by far the smartest play for the government. Had they gone to court and lost (probably after an appeal), they would have set a precedent that would be very problematic for them going forward. By claiming this, falsely or otherwise, they hurt Apple's security reputation (most consumers will not understand or care that this happens to be an old…

Maybe, but they didn't actually accomplish any of their real goals—making it easy to force Apple to break their security. This particular phone is immaterial, and Apple can always talk big later about how they patched any of the security holes that the government used, to recover face.

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#63

I would treat this claim with a great deal of skepticism. However, this is by far the smartest play for the government. Had they gone to court and lost (probably after an appeal), they would have set a precedent that would be very problematic for them going forward. By claiming this, falsely or otherwise, they hurt Apple's security reputation (most consumers will not understand or care that this happens to be an old…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#64

Can Apple counter sue for them to reveal how they accessed the phone? Surely, there must be a loophole in there somehow...

Nope. The government does not have to disclose investigative techniques. If Apple wanted to help the government, they could have, but they chose not to take that tact. Expecting the government to help Apple now is folly.

Until the next case comes in, where the FBI says that what they tried last time didn't work.

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#65
post #31
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll just say "can't comment on an active investigation" if they don't find anything to make the whole thing seem worthwhile.

To which it would be reasonable to ask, "so why did you hold this whole case in public, against Apple's wishes, if it is now so secret you can't even comment on it?"

To which they will reply, "we would not have commented on what we found on the device if Apple had been compelled to help us break in to it, and we will not be commenting on what found on the device now"

Holding the case in public, and publishing the contents of the phone in public are very different things

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#66
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything state actors can't break into? There will always be vulnerabilities to fix. Apple's and other companies' hope is not to fall too many steps behind the state actors.

PGP worked well enough for Snowden, right?

Snowden had the element of surprise. They weren't actively trying to monitor his comms because they didn't know he was a risk until after the leaks. If the state wants to decrypt your messages badly enough, they have resources that they can devote to that (as well as multiple side channels that are probably easier than forcibly decrypting, including the infamous "beat with a wrench" trick). It's not trivial to defeat strong encryption, but it is doable given sufficient interest.

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a huge number of side effects that would have to be dealt with, but this case has made me think that Apple should have the option to say, "changed your mind? Nooo, that ship (which you, the FBI, built and christened) has sailed, buddy, and you're on board. This is going before a judge, like it or not, and we're doing it now."

Except that's not how courts work. Apple is the defendant, the government is the plaintiff. The plaintiff should always have the right to end a case/action. Allowing defendant's to continue cases allows for highly malicious actions to occur.

More malicious than being forced to defend yourself, at significant cost, only to say "Nah, changed our mind"? So, plaintiffs can force issues, defendants cannot. And to let them would be malicious?

Give a specific example of something the defense could do that is malicious to the plaintiff?

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#68
post #11

I feel like cases shouldn't be droppable unless both parties mutually agree, and the courts also must first agree.the courts should not agree if it's a case that could set a precedent that can have far reaching implications. What if next time, a smaller player than Apple was caught in this sort of case, and they can't fight back as easily? Then it'd be easier to setup a precedent favourable to one party. This seems l…

Big companies can still buy little companies to take on their lawsuits, or they can provide funding & resources to fight a legal battle as part of an investment. I suspect that Google bought YouTube in part to avoid precisely this situation. If Viacom had won their lawsuit against YouTube, it would have endangered Google's core business: they would become liable not just for copyrighted material that they know about,…

You wouldn't get-rich-quick... you'd agree to a buyout with horrible terms since you'd have zero bargaining power given the circumstances.

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#69
post #52

Who wants to take bets on how? My bet is they copied the flash, and are iterating passcode guesses until it slows down too much (or implodes, however it's configured) and then they reflash and iterate again. And it was only a 4 digit passcode, so it was pretty easy to do this. The next bet is whether they find anything relevant? My bet is no. Next bet after that is whether they admit it? My bet is they won't. But the…

that's not how the security enclave works as far as i know, you can't copy that part off and so you can't copy off + bruteforce the drive?

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#70

Am I thinking right when it seems to me like the feds are kicking the can down the road? Even though the feds found an exploit that allows 'em to decrypt the current iOS, Apple's response is undoubtedly gonna be much-improved security in the next version. So in a few years when the feds demand that an iOS 10.x device be decrypted, this whole pageant will start over again.

> Am I thinking right when it seems to me like the feds are kicking the can down the road?

Yes, but who knows when they'll ever get this good a case again?

Post reply on HN