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Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

theguardian.com

61–70 of 438 posts

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#61
I always hate these kind of articles. As a US citizen there's only rule when it comes to firearms and that's the 2nd Amendment:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Until a new Amendment is passed to revoke this individual right, all arguments are invalid.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#62
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK govt does kill its citizens though. Without trial. The restrictions of guns by the government ensures you have no defense from the one entity that has killed more people than anything. Their own govt. http://blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2015/09/08/when-does-t...

Imagining the mental gymnastics you went through to bring this up was the best laugh I've had all day. Trying to say owning a handgun would prevent a clandestine branch of a first world governments assassination.

Obviously geggam has some Jason Bourne-level skills

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#63

> Growing up here myself didn’t prepare me for how distinctly, viscerally frightening it would be to raise children in a gun-obsessed nation. All arguments aside, this is just... really? I mean, come on.

I am a bit baffled by the terror-stricken tone of the article, summed up in this sentence.

I live in Appalachia. I hear shooting on almost every nice day. I am playing outside in the yard with my toddlers and the neighbors are shooting things. I don't even think about it.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly doesn't feel anything like the charts in this article. I've heard of crimes with that damned pocket knife but never a gun.

> Data doesn't fit my pre-conceptions. Better ignore the data.

You know you can find data supporting whatever you want, or at least casting doubts on whatever you don't like.

This does not mean data is irrelevant, but it is quite important to know who collected it, following what procedure, and with what goal in mind. Not sure that study above is the most unbiased, for instance.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#65
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK govt does kill its citizens though. Without trial. The restrictions of guns by the government ensures you have no defense from the one entity that has killed more people than anything. Their own govt. http://blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2015/09/08/when-does-t...

Imagining the mental gymnastics you went through to bring this up was the best laugh I've had all day. Trying to say owning a handgun would prevent a clandestine branch of a first world governments assassination.

in simpleton speak.. UK killed a citizen with a drone.... without trial... this means they will use a tool to kill citizens without trial... as have many many other govts in history....

simple economics of scale... your govt cannot afford to drone kill everyone and everyone can afford a rifle / pistol... it will be bloody but an armed citizenry will always win...

assuming they care enough to fight

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#66
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps if HIV was endlessly highlighted by government and the media as a major problem in Sweden your analogy might have made some sense. In my opinion your post exemplifies the antithesis of a decent argument or even legitimate criticism.

Okay, try this: far, far more people die in the US in car accidents than are shot. More people die because of DUIs than because of guns. Yet guns are endlessly highlighted as a major problem and the talk is constantly about making it harder to attain them and yet few people are ranting on about the dangers of automobile or licquor. Indeed, the original article dismisses drunk teenagers as a non-threat. Drunk teenager…

Maybe because taking away cars has more downsides than taking away guns?

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#67
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it worked out quite the way you said: http://crimeresearch.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rates-b... Obligatory un-zeroed-axis warning, but the point stands.

As soon as I saw John Lott, I knew I was going to be dealing with one-sided data. But I'm having trouble replicating that graph from https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... It did point out that I was wrong about no mass shootings (p57): "In 2010/11, the police provisionally recorded 642 offences of homicide, which includes the 12 people killed by Derrick Bird in June 2010. Homicide offences i…

Ha, I knew there was something off about that spike. Well spotted.

My point still stands below, despite that spike, the overall trend is still very much downwards. People just don't read charts very well.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#68
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it worked out quite the way you said: http://crimeresearch.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rates-b... Obligatory un-zeroed-axis warning, but the point stands.

As soon as I saw John Lott, I knew I was going to be dealing with one-sided data. But I'm having trouble replicating that graph from https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... It did point out that I was wrong about no mass shootings (p57): "In 2010/11, the police provisionally recorded 642 offences of homicide, which includes the 12 people killed by Derrick Bird in June 2010. Homicide offences i…

I was sure there was a nasty bit of deception going on, I was digging through gov.uk's England/Wales crime stats PDFs looking for the explanation and it seems you've figured it out :) However if my previous chats with pro-gun types are anything to go by, please don't be surprised if there's a reply along the lines of "so if that was the cause then why don't you go ban medication..."

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#69
Another ape shit HN statistics story. How about we derive a different title?

Your odds of being killed by a terrorist and by furniture are the same.

https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/10/29/youre-8-times-more-l...

"Toddlers with guns kill more people than people killed by furniture."

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#70
This is more a reflection of how vanishingly rare either event is than a compelling argument for fewer guns.

In a population of 300m or thereabouts some people will die in some very peculiar ways. We can dig up some of the rarer ones to compare with terrorism.

That said some limitation of US gun ownership law does seem sensible. But this story is no more than gossip.

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