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America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

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Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#61

Post by sunwooz »

mattmanser wrote: post #53
awakeasleep wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're imagining a world where people go to college and find high paying jobs after following their dream without their parents holding them back. That is actually a marketing story, dangerous and unrealistic to believe. Esaym is talking about teaching his kids a real skill they can use. It certainly won't override their ability to learn and persue things- it'll actually make that possible . It'll enable them to make…

Wake-up call, we're a community of programmers and contrary to our echo-chamber, programming is 1 skill of the thousands which make money. I know a range of different people, none of them are programmers. Do you think only programmers make money? I am actually shocked and disgusted by his idea of parenting. He wants to isolate them from other children and teach them one skill instead of letting them learn a range and…

I would've loved it if I never went to school. Especially as a minority living in a white neighborhood -- it was pretty much hell every day.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#62

Post by inanutshellus »

mattmanser wrote: post #53
awakeasleep wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're imagining a world where people go to college and find high paying jobs after following their dream without their parents holding them back. That is actually a marketing story, dangerous and unrealistic to believe. Esaym is talking about teaching his kids a real skill they can use. It certainly won't override their ability to learn and persue things- it'll actually make that possible . It'll enable them to make…

Wake-up call, we're a community of programmers and contrary to our echo-chamber, programming is 1 skill of the thousands which make money. I know a range of different people, none of them are programmers. Do you think only programmers make money? I am actually shocked and disgusted by his idea of parenting. He wants to isolate them from other children and teach them one skill instead of letting them learn a range and…

I feel like you're reading what you want to read into Esaym's post. And I suspect you don't have kids.

I have two young kids and let me tell you the siren song of mediocrity is strong. Everything that requires a little bit of extra effort is undercut with "Daaaaad can we watch teeveeeee instead of soccer/coloring/math/bubbles/running/programming/bicycling/gymnastics/dancing/karate/naval-frickin'-gazing?"

Obviously what the GP is saying is that he's at least /intending/ to (a) send them to private school (b) teach them a skill he thinks will give them self-confidence and the ability to value their efforts. That's it. That's all ANY parent wants.

My only real caution would be to say that I really don't expect web development to be a shockingly high paying job for my kids' lifetime. But yeah, basically you teach your kids to love solving problems and the world will be their oyster.

So the theory goes.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#63

Post by tcdent »

esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

As a publicly educated kid who started working when he was 15-1/2 (the legal minimum age in CA for a work permit at the time), I'd encourage you to rethink the importance of child-like innocence.

Not that I regret my choices, but that 13 is just a little too young to be career-oriented, and 16 is probably the bare minimum. I was into computers at that age, but if my decisions were based on profitability or professional viability they would have been very different.

Don't underestimate the role of a crappy jobs and bad bosses, either. Hard to say you'd want anyone to experience that intentionally, but a wide perspective is priceless and can't be taught by explanation alone.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#64

Post by MichaelBurge »

mattmanser wrote: post #53
awakeasleep wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're imagining a world where people go to college and find high paying jobs after following their dream without their parents holding them back. That is actually a marketing story, dangerous and unrealistic to believe. Esaym is talking about teaching his kids a real skill they can use. It certainly won't override their ability to learn and persue things- it'll actually make that possible . It'll enable them to make…

Wake-up call, we're a community of programmers and contrary to our echo-chamber, programming is 1 skill of the thousands which make money. I know a range of different people, none of them are programmers. Do you think only programmers make money? I am actually shocked and disgusted by his idea of parenting. He wants to isolate them from other children and teach them one skill instead of letting them learn a range and…

Why do you think farmers used to have a dozen kids? Extra labor to help around the farm.

If your parent is a minister, you'll be helping around the church as a teenager.

Or how about the common last name 'Smith', as in 'that family of blacksmiths'?

Parents teaching their kids the family trade is as old as history. Maybe there are other ways, but to 'shock and disgust' seems a bit extreme.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#65

Post by joshvm »

cmurf wrote: post #46
esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

And what if they don't want to do web dev work, ever?

I agree with not forcing vocations on kids, but I don't think many kids that age really want to do a paper round (or any of the other typical jobs that kids do) either. I certainly didn't want to get a job in a retail store, but it paid me a small amount of disposable money.

Web work pays substantially more and could entail graphic design, copy-writing, backend programming, marketing or all sorts of useful skills. I think we have this idea of the OP forcing his kids to write code in a basement and it doesn't need to be that at all.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#66

Post by jorgecurio »

yeah just talking to elementary school kids from America vs. Korea was an eye opening experience. I couldn't help but feel that the future is kinda bleak for American society because so much of it is centered around jock/warrior culture that places far more emphasis on physical education whereas in South Korean kids who study and is intelligent is revered as the alpha male model.

Kinda explains why South Korea ranks #1 for the most innovative economy. There's no hazing of nerds although bullying and suicide due to over studying is a definite problem....it just follows the trend that American kids are seriously being left behind by other countries.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#67

Post by tamana »

mikeyouse wrote: post #51
esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

Many public schools are just fine, if not excellent.. Something like 90% of my 300-student graduating class ended up in college, several dozen at Ivys or "near-Ivy" schools. We had intensive programming classes and maybe 15 or 20 AP options. This was just a random upper middle class district in the Midwest, we were rarely on the list of the 100-best schools in the state.

That doesn't pass the smell test all. Your school sent 10% of its students to elite colleges, that's clearly not common.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#68

Post by megablast »

esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

So you are just going to teach them what you think is important?

Home schooling has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas ever.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#69

Post by doctorstupid »

esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

Great. After they're done working for you, they can work for my children, who'll be taught some social skills.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#70

Post by InclinedPlane »

This is why the college situation is so dire these days.

It used to be that a high school diploma meant something, and guaranteed a certain level of literacy and basic familiarity with mathematics and other useful basic skills. Now there are virtually no jobs where the core requirement is literacy or basic math skills etc. which one can get as only a high school graduate. The credential of a college education, or even just having spent some time in college, is the new high school diploma. Except whereas the public funds high school, it does not completely fund college.

And even though total government outlays to colleges have actually increased, admissions have increased even more, and spending on administrators has as well, so per student costs not covered by tax payers has gone through the roof.

> She offers a sample math problem from the test: You go to the store and there's a sale. Buy one, get the second half off. So if you buy two, how much do you pay?

> "High school-credentialed adults, they can't do this task — on average," says Carr.

High school graduates can't do what is basically a middle school level math problem. It's no wonder employers don't want to hire them. As a society we spend hundreds of thousands of tax dollars on K-12 students as they pass through the school pipeline but when they graduate they aren't educated and they have very little to show for all that time, effort, and expenditure.

This is unquestionably a national tragedy that will haunt our country for decades to come. We've got a "lost generation" already with millenials who were vastly underemployed for several years after the big financial crash (which would be expected to have a lifetime impact on career and wealth development). And we're seeing that there's a new lost generation of young adults who have been ill served by the educational establishment.

Edit: even worse, HS education does a poor job of preparing students for college, leading to the double whammy of debt + dropping out of college without earning a degree.

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