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Business School is a Joke

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Re: Business School is a Joke

#61

Post by Brushfire »

gcheong wrote: post #52
dschobel wrote: post #2

For a different point of view. Coming from an engineering background, I sat in on an entrepreneurship class at UChicago Booth and I was totally blown away. The angle was completely different. The previous class the students were all given the details about hypothetical ventures with some background on the market and they were asked to say whether they would invest or not invest should such a proposal cross their desk…

I wonder though, why is entrepreneurship devoted to a single class? Doesn't that kind of reinforce the idea that most of business school is just training for middle/upper management in established companies?

It isn't, the parent probably just didnt know the name of the course being taught (or didn't reference). I'm a current UChicago Booth student. My bet is that the parent poster was auditing a class of Building the New Venture. The following classes are Entrepreneurship or Venture Capital focused (in no particular order):

  Building the New Venture
  Entrepreneurial Finance and Private Equity
  New Venture Strategy
  New Enterprise and Small Business Management
  Special Topics in Entrepreneurship: New Venture Challenge
  Entrepreneurial Internship Seminar
  Commercializing Innovation
  Social Entrepreneurship
  Entrepreneurial Selling
  New Venture and Small Enterprise Lab
  Private Equity/Venture Capital Lab
  International Entrepreneurship Lab - China
  E-Business Technology
  Developing New Products and Services
  Laboratory in New Product and Strategy Development I
  Technology Strategy
  Designing and Leading the Entrepreneurial Firm
  Statistical Insight into Marketing Consulting and Entrepreneurship
  Innovation in Energy Markets and Opportunities in Renewable Energy
  Structuring Venture Capital, Private Equity, and Entrepreneurial Transactions
You'll note that many of those are Lab classes - meaning that we work with real companies/firms on real issues they are dealing with. I'm likely missing 2-3 classes.

One of the people responding to the parent noted about how different the UChicago method is: focus on real data, real experience, and hard analysis. I'd say at least 30% of our class has some sort of hard math/science/engineering background.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#62

Post by endtime »

jmm wrote: post #59
endtime wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pedigree and pathway would get her hired, but not make her successful. She got 5/5 ratings in her recent reviews.

This is a silly back and forth until you can point at the "something" she got from b-school aside from pathway and pedigree. Again, that's what's being discussed. It's certainly possible that the degree got her the job, yet her own natural intelligence, undergrad experience, or professional experience led to her success. And /not/ the b-school curriculum.

Yeah, I suppose that's reasonable - in fact, it's probably true.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#63

Post by jakarta »

tsally wrote: post #29
dschobel wrote: post #2

For a different point of view. Coming from an engineering background, I sat in on an entrepreneurship class at UChicago Booth and I was totally blown away. The angle was completely different. The previous class the students were all given the details about hypothetical ventures with some background on the market and they were asked to say whether they would invest or not invest should such a proposal cross their desk…

UChicago teaches business differently that basically every business school in the country, so take this anecdote with a grain of salt. The have a quantitative/scientific focus that many other schools lack. Your example shows this perfectly, as the professor presented real data to you instead of fictional data. On the whole, there is still a large problem with undergraduate degrees in business.

Actually, I'd argue that among the top 7 business schools, there are certain distinctions between them that will appeal to different people with different professional goals.

MIT, UChicago, and Stanford all seem to appeal more to engineering types and offer a more quantitative / scientific focus.

Wharton is known for their emphasis on finance and is usually ideal for people wanting to become IBankers.

Columbia has its roots in Benjamin Graham-style investing and you'll see a lot of students there go on to those types of hedge funds.

Harvard is more regarded for its emphasis on management and heavy use of case studies, and the people that go there tend to seek out consulting or rotational programs within the F500.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#64

Post by argv_empty »

coryl wrote: post #42
dlevine wrote: post #41

There's an interesting book called "Managers Not MBAs", written by a professor of business, which talks about why the MBA system is pretty broken. IMO, studying business as an undergrad is pretty useless. Study something real (science or engineering), and if you want to learn about business later, go to business school (or start a company if you really want to learn about business).

LOL @ studying something "real" like science or engineering. My friend, you wouldn't last a day in the Amazonian jungle with a native tribe. (Anthropology, but thats not real.) Study what you love first and foremost, even if thats business. Everything else will fall into place.

Anthropology, but thats not real.

At the undergrad level, maybe not. At higher levels, most things become a lot more real. Of course, you aren't likely to be doing that sort of field work as an undergrad anyway (or so I hear from high school friends who went on to study anthropology in college).

Re: Business School is a Joke

#65

Post by bjoernw »

gkoberger wrote: post #9

I have always thought business school would be a lot better off if people were forced to read people like Seth Godin or even Chris Anderson. My problem with business people is that they learn buzz words and jargon, and often treat the "makers" as tools. I would have a lot more respect for b-school if business majors were forced to pick a "concentration"- engineering, CS, etc. They wouldn't be expected to be great at…

I wonder where the problem that engineers have with business people comes from. Is it because on average business people get paid more than developers even though it is easier to measure the contribution of developers? I would really like to know.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#66

Post by shrikant »

Vladik wrote: post #23

An undergraduate degree in this country teaches you how to become a worker bee. If you like being a worker bee, getting a decent(?) salary, taking 2 weeks and then later in life maybe 6 weeks vacation, by all means study business, marketing, etc. Otherwise, get educated. "Self education is, I firmly believe, the only kid of education there is." -Isaac Asimov If only we could have a few more people every year become f…

He likely meant "Go to school/college to learn, not to 'be taught' everything by your teachers."

Re: Business School is a Joke

#68

Post by coryl »

argv_empty wrote: post #64
coryl wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL @ studying something "real" like science or engineering. My friend, you wouldn't last a day in the Amazonian jungle with a native tribe. (Anthropology, but thats not real.) Study what you love first and foremost, even if thats business. Everything else will fall into place.

Anthropology, but thats not real. At the undergrad level, maybe not. At higher levels, most things become a lot more real. Of course, you aren't likely to be doing that sort of field work as an undergrad anyway (or so I hear from high school friends who went on to study anthropology in college).

I have a friend who went to South America the summer after 2nd year. Also a roommate who went to Peru after 3rd year, but she had to apply and interview to go with the prof.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#69

Post by tsally »

jakarta wrote: post #63
tsally wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UChicago teaches business differently that basically every business school in the country, so take this anecdote with a grain of salt. The have a quantitative/scientific focus that many other schools lack. Your example shows this perfectly, as the professor presented real data to you instead of fictional data. On the whole, there is still a large problem with undergraduate degrees in business.

Actually, I'd argue that among the top 7 business schools, there are certain distinctions between them that will appeal to different people with different professional goals. MIT, UChicago, and Stanford all seem to appeal more to engineering types and offer a more quantitative / scientific focus. Wharton is known for their emphasis on finance and is usually ideal for people wanting to become IBankers. Columbia has it…

Fair point, but you have to consider where the distinctions come from. For example, at MIT I'd be willing to bet the quantitative focus comes from the fact that many engineers who go there pick us business as a second degree as an undergrad. At Chicago, the quantitative/scientific focus stems from the fact that the department truly believes in it as a method of investigation. Chicago is all about the raw data and real life case studies. It's my understanding that many other business departments differ in this respect.

Of course, this is all anecdotal evidence I've gathered from talking to Chicago alumni, so take it for what you will.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#70

Post by ahi »

mr_november wrote: post #14

I feel the HN title is a touch misleading - when I hear B-school, I think MBA, maybe that's just me. The fact that this is undergrad is significant. In my opinion, thought leaders, both from the external 'business' world as well as top professors, often feel it is a waste of their time teaching undergrads, many of whom are there because it is what one is supposed to do (ie. go out and get an education) rather than be…

The MBA at Michigan is the undergrad degree with more drinking--I mean networking.
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