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The Mystery of When to Stop Antidepressants

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Re: The Mystery of When to Stop Antidepressants

#61

Post by jamble »

jobu wrote: post #59
johnchristopher wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A close family member was on antidepressants for almost two years after being misdiagnosed with depression (that's a whole different story though). What was the good diagnostic then ? What were the overlapping symptoms ? I am personally really interested in learning more about illnesses that look like depression but aren't.

It was/is a combination of a couple MTHFR gene mutations and black mold exposure. The mutations make it more difficult for the body to process mycotoxins, and those started messing with her nervous and endocrine systems. The misdiagnosis happened because there were some similar symptoms to depression. (She was very tired, but could never sleep. Dark moods, but in hindsight that was mostly because she felt crappy.) Th…

>The doctor had no idea and she was willing to try anything to feel better, but SSRI's never really helped.

I just found out last year that i have a MTHFR mutation myself and this pretty much sums up my life up until then. Doctors, psychs had no idea and I tried so many pharmaceutical combinations.

I also had an underlying thyroid issue. I do wish testing for MTHFR gene defects and looking at thyroid performance were more common steps to take before psychiatric medications are prescribed.

Re: The Mystery of When to Stop Antidepressants

#62

Post by neverknowsbest »

biturd wrote: post #22
julie1 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could antidepressant just be a placebo requiring to be addictive then? And could hooking off an addiction be very similar to depression? Would any psychoactive works? If so maybe why not using a less dangerous psychoactive drug if it is a placebo that works good enough to alleviate the pain?

Opiates will cure depression, stop it dead in it's tracks for a large majority of people. Good luck finding a Dr to help you down that road though. There is a reason people have an illicit drug of choice, and that is a good indicator of what anti-d's may work best for you. Opiates, you are screwed, meth, there is Adderal or Ritalin, ( All these probably have had their names changed by now to something else ), if you…

the dx doesn't always match the rx, illicit or licit. seems logical that anxiety = not stimulants...

but it depends on the underlying cause of the anxiety, sometimes uppers is just what the doctor called for

Re: The Mystery of When to Stop Antidepressants

#63

Post by neverknowsbest »

stevedonovan wrote: post #28
biturd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

side effects.

Fair enough, I've been lucky. The only side-effect I've noticed over long-term use is a slight dullness. Some people suffer all kinds of weirdness.

The worst luck is experiencing side effects/personality change from the meds, but not being able to notice them _because_ of the medication.

Re: The Mystery of When to Stop Antidepressants

#64

Post by pc2g4d »

tallanvor wrote: post #42
pc2g4d wrote: post #2

There's a disconnect between what the meta-analysed randomized clinical trials are saying about antidepressants (that they are at best minimally effective relative to placebo) and what relapse rates suggest (that people relapse when withdrawn from antidepressants because the antidepressant was effectively treating the underlying depression). This conflict is resolved when antidepressants are acknowledged as addictive…

Most people who get depressed get through it without any special intervention, while some of us require a period of time on medication and/or counseling. But we still don't know enough about depression to figure out who will respond best with medication vs counseling, or for how long treatment will be required. That's one of the reasons for tapering - to give you time to adjust to the lower dosage, both in terms of l…

It's definitely true that there's more than a biochemical adjustment that has to happen. The way your brain/mind work changes as you get off the drugs, so you have to relearn how to manage your emotions without them. For me who was on the drugs since I was a teenager this requires learning some skills I never developed to begin with! Kinda crazy.

Most doctors have no clue about the real effects of SSRIs etc., and many are invested in the "SSRIs for life" model. Prescription refill visits, after all, form a large part of their business. So sometimes you have to go it alone because the docs know less than you do about SSRI dependency and withdrawal.

Re: The Mystery of When to Stop Antidepressants

#65

Post by pc2g4d »

arc_of_descent wrote: post #32
pc2g4d wrote: post #2

There's a disconnect between what the meta-analysed randomized clinical trials are saying about antidepressants (that they are at best minimally effective relative to placebo) and what relapse rates suggest (that people relapse when withdrawn from antidepressants because the antidepressant was effectively treating the underlying depression). This conflict is resolved when antidepressants are acknowledged as addictive…

I experienced this in mid 2014. I was feeling great and decided to stop taking anti-depressants. I was on 10 mg of an SSRI. Man, I fell into a well. I was depressed for 3 months. Couldn't get _any_ work done. Had a constant headache. I then checked myself into a hospital after 3 months for a full medical check up. Not surprisingly all the tests were fine. Finally the psychiatrist there put me back on anti-depressants…

I'm glad you've been able to pull out it. Did you go off cold turkey? That'll do crazy things to you. But if you're extremely gradual, I believe it is possible to get off the drugs if that's what you want.

Re: The Mystery of When to Stop Antidepressants

#66

Post by pc2g4d »

DanBC wrote: post #33
biturd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who tells you anti-depressants are not habit forming is a rep for a pharma co. that has not been sued to change their stance on that statement yet.

Habit forming - addiction - tends to include tolerance (doesn't exist for anti depressants), pre-occupation (doesn't exist), drug seeking and holding (doesn't exist). There are problems with anti depressants being over prescribed and misprescribed to people who should have had a talking therapy, and they are difficult for some people to stop, but calling them hanit forming is incorrect.

You're right, probably "addictive" was the wrong word. "Physical dependency forming" perhaps is better.

Re: The Mystery of When to Stop Antidepressants

#67

Post by arc_of_descent »

pc2g4d wrote: post #65
arc_of_descent wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced this in mid 2014. I was feeling great and decided to stop taking anti-depressants. I was on 10 mg of an SSRI. Man, I fell into a well. I was depressed for 3 months. Couldn't get _any_ work done. Had a constant headache. I then checked myself into a hospital after 3 months for a full medical check up. Not surprisingly all the tests were fine. Finally the psychiatrist there put me back on anti-depressants…

I'm glad you've been able to pull out it. Did you go off cold turkey? That'll do crazy things to you. But if you're extremely gradual, I believe it is possible to get off the drugs if that's what you want.

Yeah, I had to. The doc I was seeing at that time diagnosed me with bipolar disorder and discontinued all anti-depressants.

I'm no judge, and I believe medical science is tough. But there's no real empirical evidence. So anyways, me going back to the 10 mg escitalopram kind of helped.

Re: The Mystery of When to Stop Antidepressants

#68

Post by facetube »

meowface wrote: post #6
facetube wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm. The part that's really telling IMO is that a lot of the withdrawal symptoms are not at all related to depression: they're dizziness, vertigo, and strange electrical feelings in your head – not symptoms of depression or relapse. Minimally reinforcing in terms of "drug liking" or "wanting to take more" in my experience, but there is definitely profound physical dependence.

Probably not a good idea to generalize the withdrawal symptoms. Some people do report severe anxiety and depression from withdrawal in addition to those other symptoms.

Too late to edit, but I'm definitely only speaking for my personal experience. You're absolutely right.

Re: The Mystery of When to Stop Antidepressants

#69

Post by Tiksi »

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #57
Tiksi wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the withdrawls qualify them as habit forming? Calling them extremely addicting would probably be inaccurate, but "There's a good chance you'll feel awful if you stop taking this" seems like it may encourage forming a habit. Apparently there may be tolerance for antidepressants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressant_treatment_tachy... > ADT tachyphylaxis incorporates drug sensitivity as a potential cau…

There is a difference between 'addiction' and 'physical dependence'. See: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/teaching-packets/neur...

Sure, but 'habit forming' is a lower bar to cross than either.

Re: The Mystery of When to Stop Antidepressants

#70

Post by jhanschoo »

philjohn wrote: post #43
DigitalJack wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

effexor, aka venlafaxine, gave me some amazingly horrible vertigo if I missed more than 1 dose in a row. I was off antidepressants for about 2 years, and then I was hit with severe depression. I'm on the generic for paxil now, and it has made a huge difference. The impact was a night and day contrast.

Someone I know who took it said they got what they could only describe as "head shocks" - the effect of small pulses of electricity flowing through their brain during withdrawal.

I got these when I first began taking antidepressants with fluoxetine/Prozac, never felt myself for a very long time afterwards.
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