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Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

business.financialpost.com

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Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#61

Come to Montreal! It's great here. No way would I want to pledge the rest of my life to a bank in exchange for the right to exist. Rent controls here. It's odd: it's like the state understands that banks are bastards. Montreal has some issues with organised crime but nothing compared to the organised crime of banking / money laundering through land. I don't have to pay some gangster $1MM for a shack. Leave the boomer…

Don't. I'm seriously thinking about moving to Toronto right now. I have a Soft. Eng. degree from McGill and I can't find any business in this city that will pay me minimum wage.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#62
I can't help but to quote the full song Modern Man from Arcade Fire's album The Suburbs -- which basically was an entire album chronicling this sort of issue in San Francisco.

So I wait my turn, I'm a modern man And the people behind me, they can't understand Makes me feel like Makes me feel like

So I wait in line, I'm a modern man And the people behind me, they can't understand Makes me feel like Something don't feel right

Like a record that's skipping I'm a modern man And the clock keeps ticking I'm a modern man Makes me feel like Makes me feel like

In my dream I was almost there Then they pulled me aside and said you're going nowhere They say we are the chosen few But we waste it And that's why we're still waiting On a number from the modern man Maybe when you're older you will understand Why you don't feel right Why you can't sleep at night now

In line for a number but you don't understand Like a modern man In line for a number but you don't understand Like a modern man

Oh I had a dream I was dreaming And I feel I'm losing the feeling Makes me feel like Like something don't feel right I erase the number of the modern man Want to break the mirror of the modern man Makes me feel like Makes me feel like

In my dream I was almost there Then they pulled me aside and said you're going nowhere I know we are the chosen few But we waste it And that's why we're still waiting In line for a number but you don't understand Like a modern man In line for a number but you don't understand Like a modern man

If it's alright Then how come you can't sleep at night? In line for a number but you don't understand Like a modern man

I'm a modern man I'm a modern man I'm a modern man I'm a modern man

In a Law of Rents sort of way, I can't help but to think that these phenomena are self indictments. If land prices are driven by those who can extract the most value from them, and the result is that wealthy people land-grab property that even remains vacant in some cases, or otherwise is a living space for a twenty-something working in finance, law, or medicine, who will eventually move away and be replaced by some other twenty-something in finance, law, or medicine, this seems to say a lot more about failures on the part of the wealthy members of older generations to innovate. If the best a use of that land is dormancy, sitting like gold in a vault, instead of being a place where a working class father inspires a child or where a mother teaches her son or where an artist, like what David Byrne did in the Talking Heads days in New York, transforms a space into a freeing creative studio ... isn't this embarrassing to them (the wealthy older generations)? It's basically an admission that, with the huge wealth endowment and peaceful world they were handed by their parents' generation, they managed to squander it to the point where the best use of land, the most inventive thing they can do with their money, is ... nothing. You've got two options: pour your money into consumer variation bullshit startups, or park it into assets like real estate that deprive younger generations of opportunity. It seems that wealth and a half century of the position of passively dominating in Western-led proxy wars has stripped away any sense of civic duty, or even basic shame at their failure to use capital to do anything.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was going to be my question. I mean, look at the Bay Area. They command some of the highest rents in the country, and many tech-sector workers are able to "get by" because of higher salaries from their employers. Of course, if you're not in the tech sector, you're forced to live in more affordable outskirts, like East Bay. In NYC, they have fantastic transit, so if you don't live in Manhattan, you can still get…

Toronto's transit is indeed pretty trash. I want to move down to the city but I'm split on whether to put in a down-payment for a condo or piss away my equity by renting. They say the condo market is very volatile right now. Not sure how true this is because I am not very well versed on the subject.

Hey there, I used to work in the condo industry in Toronto. If you had asked me 5-10 years ago if buying a condo was the right decision, I would have said yes. But now, absolutely not.

What changed is the respect the builders have for the people buying and living in their buildings. 5-10 years ago, condos were a bit more rare, so a construction company had to try really hard to make their condo appealing. They worked slower and the architecture was much more livable. Spacious units, sensible parking and elevators, and catchy amenities like pools and fitness rooms.

Now, they pump out condos like a sweatshop. Instead of 8 units on a floor, there are now 12. Instead of a pool, you get a gym, and instead of a fitness room, you get a yoga studio. Elevators that serve more than 30 floors are too expensive, so those 50+ storey condos need 2 elevators; one to take you from 1-30, and another to take you to from 30-50. Every single new condo in the last 5 years is in litigation with the developer due to issues with the building. Contractors like plumbers and electricians know the game now too, so every bill from a contractor will be $999 (regardless of work done) because anything over $1000 requires board approval. Without a strong property management team, I expect half of the condos will be bankrupt within a decade.

If you want to buy a condo, buy one in a building that is more than 10 years old. They will have sorted out the engineering problems by then and their budgets will be inline.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#64
Back in the mid/late 90s as Hong Kong was returning to China, the spike in prices started. I recall Condos in Kits for $200k or so, new build later in the 90s was still sub $300k. The victorians around there were still reasonable as well.

In a few short years it went nutty and prices spiked and they've only been going up since.

Those retiring age sold their places in Van, moved to the Okanagan and prices there spiked as well.

Weather is maybe part of it, setting and scenery certainly are too. Easy access to the Pacific Rim is also part of it.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#65

As someone who just moved from Vancouver to the Bay Area, it's obvious the issue isn't housing. It's income. My apartment in trendy yaletown was $2350/month for a very nice 2 bed, 2 bath place within 10 mins of anything in downtown. Try finding something even remotely as nice around Silicon Valley. The issue we should be tackling is the low wages seen in the area. The same developer who could make $100k USD in the va…

Isn't that a housing issue, though? Paying for a $2350/mo place on $60k is... pretty ridiculous.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#66

As someone who just moved from Vancouver to the Bay Area, it's obvious the issue isn't housing. It's income. My apartment in trendy yaletown was $2350/month for a very nice 2 bed, 2 bath place within 10 mins of anything in downtown. Try finding something even remotely as nice around Silicon Valley. The issue we should be tackling is the low wages seen in the area. The same developer who could make $100k USD in the va…

This!

The tech salaries are absurdly low. The tech CEOs who pay poor wages and are complaining about their inability to retain talent are the same ones blaming real estate.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#67

> There are already enough houses and condos in the city with no lights on because no one actually lives in them. To me, there seems to be a pretty obvious public policy response. Institute a very high property tax, which is abated on some kind of curve according to the amount of time the owner or tenants spend living in a property, with no tax being due if the property is legitimately occupied for more than, say, te…

I would be careful here. Laws like this are close to demonstrating a lack of respect for property rights and that is not a good direction for any democracy. We have always had areas where the cost of housing was too high but the reactionary idea of taxing it to death is in effect the idea of that some property rights are important but others are not. If any such idea was pushed then be sure that protection is applied…

You have things upside down. Property rights only exist because of law. Also, when did property rights become vital to democracy?

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#68

As someone who just moved from Vancouver to the Bay Area, it's obvious the issue isn't housing. It's income. My apartment in trendy yaletown was $2350/month for a very nice 2 bed, 2 bath place within 10 mins of anything in downtown. Try finding something even remotely as nice around Silicon Valley. The issue we should be tackling is the low wages seen in the area. The same developer who could make $100k USD in the va…

Ding ding ding. We have a winner. While I've never ever considered moving to Vancouver, I get recruiter emails several times a month for companies in Vancouver looking for Senior programmers to move there and only offering 80k to 110k CAD at the most. That is not nearly enough money to live in Vancouver. Enough to exist but not enough to live.

The problem as I understand it is that a ton of Vancouver's housing is occupied by children of mega rich people from Asia (mostly China) who are rich enough to not care what rent costs which drives rent up for everyone else. There's such a huge l mismatch between housing costs and salaries in Vancouver.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#69
post #61

Come to Montreal! It's great here. No way would I want to pledge the rest of my life to a bank in exchange for the right to exist. Rent controls here. It's odd: it's like the state understands that banks are bastards. Montreal has some issues with organised crime but nothing compared to the organised crime of banking / money laundering through land. I don't have to pay some gangster $1MM for a shack. Leave the boomer…

Don't. I'm seriously thinking about moving to Toronto right now. I have a Soft. Eng. degree from McGill and I can't find any business in this city that will pay me minimum wage.

E-mail me.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin seems like an amazing value for a capital city with rich culture. Here in Boston I'm paying 3700 euros for (poorly maintained) 90 sqm, of course split with five people. Maybe it is time to consider a stint in Berlin. Are there any resources you would recommend to learn more about the city, and the tech scene?

I've lived in Boston, DC, NYC and London for extended periods of time, and spent a stint in Berlin. It's tech scene is awesome - if you find the right group of people it feels like CCC year round. It's art, music and food scene was an amazing value for the money when I was there circa 2011. I'm guessing the equivalent of their hipsters got wise to it and drove up prices a la the gentrification you saw (compare the be…

CCC?
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