Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#61

Post by rconti » Sat, Jan 16, 2016, 5:56 PM UTC

jamescun wrote: post #48

For me, wanting to buy is not about an investment. I want somewhere secure and stable to live. The "dead money" aspect of rent versus a mortgage is just a bonus. It must seem alien to most in the west the sheer lack of protection renters have in England (property law is devolved); it is based entirely in private contracts, and what law does exist is rarely if ever enforced. Just last week Parliament rejected an amend…

This makes it sounds classist -- almost as if the renting class don't deserve protections. I would have assumed renters in the US would be treated worse.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#62

Post by oneeyedpigeon » Sat, Jan 16, 2016, 5:57 PM UTC

shhudson wrote: post #42

For some reason this is a really popular topic to drag up on a slow news day in the UK. The facts are that UK own-home ownership is actually quite average compared to other European countries and others around the world. Wikipedia has a helpful table [1] about this topic. The UK ranks 37th lowest out the 46 countries included. France is nearly the same. Germany and Austria are the only two large European countries th…

It's also interesting to note that, contrary to the tone in the original article, those countries near the top of the list are hardly paragons of capitalism.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#63

Post by rconti » Sat, Jan 16, 2016, 5:58 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #27

Nullabillity wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renting is just another form of debt, though.

How so?

It would be like renting clothes. Yes, you could stop renting them at any time, but... you don't really have an alternative.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#64

Post by ghaff » Sat, Jan 16, 2016, 5:58 PM UTC

abritinthebay wrote: post #5

As a Brit in the US I don't feel the pressure is much different here. It's a little resigned and accepting that in a big city you can't afford it, but it's still expected that eventually you'll move to the suburbs and have a home. That's not surprising though as owning a home is generally about two things: financial responsibility and stability (obviously desirable), and actually owning the place that you live. "A pl…

I don't see there being a particular expectation that you'll move to the suburbs (within the rather large confines of that term), although it's quite common for families with children to want more space and better public school systems. However, yes, I do think there's an expectation that people above a certain income level will eventually want to buy some sort of place for reasons of financial diversification and, as you say, stability. There comes a point in most people's lives where the ability to easily pull up roots and move on short notice isn't a particular win but knowing that you can't be forced out on relatively short notice--or face significantly rising rents--is.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#65

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 16, 2016, 5:58 PM UTC

abritinthebay wrote: post #5

As a Brit in the US I don't feel the pressure is much different here. It's a little resigned and accepting that in a big city you can't afford it, but it's still expected that eventually you'll move to the suburbs and have a home. That's not surprising though as owning a home is generally about two things: financial responsibility and stability (obviously desirable), and actually owning the place that you live. "A pl…

[deleted]

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#66

Post by dfraser992 » Sat, Jan 16, 2016, 5:59 PM UTC

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #46

nextos wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, as someone renting several flats in the UK during the last few years I'm still shocked by the lack of rights I have as a tenant. For example, landlords can enter your property by only giving you a 24-hour notice in writing. I have had real state companies entering my flat without prior notice to show it to potential new tenants several times. Other countries in the EU would take these incidents very serious…

> I have had real state companies entering my flat without prior notice to show it to potential new tenants several times. We had one representative from the landlord (Foxtons) pull this on us. After one angry email to this representative's supervisor, mentioning the Landlord and Tenants Act, it never happened again. I believe the supervisor's excuse was that they had an option on tenants account info that said they…

Foxtons.... I wish someone had told me never to deal with Foxtons. I thought I had a decent relationship with the landlord, but they manipulated her so badly and Foxtons blatantly lied about various things when I left the property. I had to threaten to sue to get my deposit back.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#67

Post by abritinthebay » Sat, Jan 16, 2016, 5:59 PM UTC

lkrubner wrote: post #11

abritinthebay wrote: post #5

As a Brit in the US I don't feel the pressure is much different here. It's a little resigned and accepting that in a big city you can't afford it, but it's still expected that eventually you'll move to the suburbs and have a home. That's not surprising though as owning a home is generally about two things: financial responsibility and stability (obviously desirable), and actually owning the place that you live. "A pl…

> but it's still expected that eventually > you'll move to the suburbs and have a home. That might be true for the whites, but I don't think that expectation exists for the blacks or hispanics or Koreans or Chinese or basically anyone. I've known affluent Koreans who dream of eventually being wealthy enough to buy apartment buildings, but I don't know any who want to move to the suburbs.

Sure, the suburbs was probably a bad general example (though a majority one). However most minorities that I know still have a house or condo in their plans.

Wherever the location the desire is real

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#68

Post by darkr » Sat, Jan 16, 2016, 6:00 PM UTC

jamescun wrote: post #48

For me, wanting to buy is not about an investment. I want somewhere secure and stable to live. The "dead money" aspect of rent versus a mortgage is just a bonus. It must seem alien to most in the west the sheer lack of protection renters have in England (property law is devolved); it is based entirely in private contracts, and what law does exist is rarely if ever enforced. Just last week Parliament rejected an amend…

This.

I rented for nearly ten years, latterly/mostly in East London, moving house on average every 12 months. Had my fair share of shitty landlords.

Me & my girlfriend had circumstance/luck to thank; in 2012 (just before prices started climbing skywards again) we managed to save/borrow/scrape enough money together to get a deposit on a nearly derelict Victorian terrace and have been slowly doing it up since then. It's still not finished but it's mine and I love it. That it's increased in value is nice, but kind of abstract in that it's only money I will see if I ever decide to move, which I have no plans to. It's also totally secondary to it being _my_ home. I shut the door and the outside world ceases to exist.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#69

Post by teamonkey » Sat, Jan 16, 2016, 6:05 PM UTC

themartorana wrote: post #53

jamescun wrote: post #48

For me, wanting to buy is not about an investment. I want somewhere secure and stable to live. The "dead money" aspect of rent versus a mortgage is just a bonus. It must seem alien to most in the west the sheer lack of protection renters have in England (property law is devolved); it is based entirely in private contracts, and what law does exist is rarely if ever enforced. Just last week Parliament rejected an amend…

It does seem odd to me (in the US). Renting here is not without risk and slum lords and rising rents, but there is a minimum expectation of consumer protection, much in the same way there is with most transactions. Either way, if you care to live anywhere near a city, housing prices are astronomical. We make a decent living, my wife and I, but still don't have what it takes to buy a two bedroom apartment in one of th…

> in 10-15 years

In many parts of the UK it's closer to 5-10 years. Which is great if you can afford the high price of entry.

Also great if you can afford a buy-to-let mortgage, because it means you can be profitable within a much shorter time, while containing the supply of purchasable housing and raising the average rental price...

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#70

Post by stegosaurus » Sat, Jan 16, 2016, 6:07 PM UTC

So there's food, water, and shelter.

You can get by as a vagabond without a stable source of these - but let's assume that particular lifestyle doesn't appeal (I've tried it. Fun for a while.).

You can work, for an amount sufficient to subsist - and nothing more. A lifetime of work.

You can be independently wealthy. Not much to say there.

Let's say we're between 2 and 3.

How do you get towards 3, if you're in 2? Realistic options, no lottery wins here.

Well, you can save some of your income. Maybe that'll be enough, and maybe you'll eventually have enough to be able to rent until there's no more you.

You can try to improve your income. To do that, it helps if you're mentally fit. Having a table at home to eat at; having a computer setup if you're a remote worker; a nice bookshelf; whatever. Things help. It's hard to work for years on years in material discomfort to build a retirement fund.

So you own some of these things, and you rent.

Every so often, perhaps every year, all of that Stuff gets bundled up. Boxed away; sent in transit. You remove shelves; buff up floors; repaint walls. Then you sit and wait for the bill from the landlord.

Bugger, that's a hefty deduction. Next time, you'll be a bit smarter, I suppose. You won't drill that hole in the wall. You won't pester about the broken washing machine.

The cycle continues. Maybe you alternate material discomfort.

Eventually, though, you're probably going to get tired of it. Because fundamentally, you're doing all of this not because you want to, but because you have to - you can't rely on the landlord to provide you with stability.

What next?