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Tinkerer’s Sunset

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Re: Tinkerer’s Sunset

#61

Post by rimantas »

pasbesoin wrote: post #18

My concern is if/when they come to dominate content distribution and become the only channel (or a member of an oligopoly of channels, all using "fair use" adverse licenses and DRM). At which point I'm effectively forced to lease rather than own my content, under whatever terms they dictate.

Apple still makes most of the money on hardware. They could not care less how do you get your content if you consume that content on the device they sold to you.

Frankly, I cannot imagine they going back to DRM for music on iTunes, and I hope it is only the question of time when DRM will be dropped for video and other media. If ITMS (where M will stand for "Media" instead of "Music") is the most convenient way to get your media and the price is right they will do well without DRM.

Re: Tinkerer’s Sunset

#62

Post by raganwald »

statictype wrote: post #53
raganwald wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

t's okay to release a PC, then totally limit what software can even be installed on it. It's ours, you're just licensing it and that is fine No, an iPad is NOT a PC, it's an iPad. Apple sells another product, a Mac pro, that's a PC. I'm typing this on a Macbook Pro, that's also a PC. And there's the Macbook Air, that's a PC as well. But the iPad is not a PC just as my car is not a PC, even though I'm sure it has RAM…

Your fridge is not in danger of replacing your PC. Your argument makes sense if we were talking about the iPhone. What role is the iPad meant to play, if not a simplified PC replacement ?

An iPad is not in danger of replacing my PC, I completely agree with Apple's proposition that it's a third class of devices.

I won't program on an iPad. I like the look of iWork, but I can't see myself composing my next presentation on it. I won't be (legally in Canada) ripping my DVD collection on it. I might write comments like this on it, but without a stylus I can't see myself writing a blog post on it.

An iPad may replace my mother's Macbook. And it ought to. She surfs the net, writes email, does her banking, and skypes. She has no need of a device that she can tinker with.

I see iPads as a threat to books and also as a threat to secondary televisions. The big screen isn't going away, but a lot of people like a smaller TV in their bedroom or kitchen. Being able to watch movies and favourite shows on a small device may displace these extra televisions.

Re: Tinkerer’s Sunset

#63

Post by mos1 »

joshu wrote: post #33
DaniFong wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impressive. It might be very interesting to chat. I'd appreciate if you dropped me an email to dfong lightsailenergy.com :-)

Same. What was the widget? Been thinking of hiring someone to do some board layout work to build these.

It's just an off-the-shelf Barix Barionet 50. It does the job well, and only draws a watt or two (literally).

Not terribly impressive, but $150 worth of my own work wouldn't have been able to drop the power usage to those levels.

Re: Tinkerer’s Sunset

#64

Post by DannoHung »

blhack wrote: post #31
DannoHung wrote: post #14

Answer this: You have somehow given a completely unlocked iPad to a child that will run any unsigned executable. How are they going to figure out that they can hack its guts? Now answer this: You have given a child a personal computer running Windows 7 or OS X 10.6. How are they going to figure out that they can hack its guts?

>|Answer this: You have somehow given a completely unlocked iPad to a child that will run any unsigned executable. >|How are they going to figure out that they can hack its guts? I have no idae, I think the point is that they can't. >|Now answer this: You have given a child a personal computer running Windows 7 or OS X 10.6. >|How are they going to figure out that they can hack its guts? http://www.python.org/downloa…

I didn't ask you to solve the question of, "Where they can figure out HOW to hack its guts", that would be a pointless question to ask, here of all places. I asked you how are they going to figure out that they CAN hack its guts? Mark said that he had to press a two key combination to get dropped into an evaluation prompt and that he could start hacking right then and there.

A kid with a new computer today has gotta figure out first that it CAN be programmed and then what a good way to program it is. If he's got no guidance and no foreknowledge, he'll be floating in a vast, featureless ocean of jargon, languages, libraries, and frameworks.

We've drowned the burgeoning tinkerer before he even had a chance to start. Apple's just held the funeral at sea.

Re: Tinkerer’s Sunset

#65

Post by [deleted] »

Super_Jambo wrote: post #42

Economic rules only exist to serve society. The iPad & iPhone lockdown are simply a way for apple to give themselves a monopoly on software and content sales. It's leveraging success in one market (shiny looking hardware) into dominance in another (content provision, software sales) If they keep it up and are successful you can bet your ass the regulators will fine them for it, it's far more destructive than MS bundl…

[deleted]

Re: Tinkerer’s Sunset

#66

Post by WinterAyars »

Create wrote: post #60
yan wrote: post #19

I really don't understand the wave of alarmist posts on the 'end of a tinkering era'. Today, we have more communities and devices for tinkering than we've ever had. Magazines like Make, sites like Hack-a-day, platforms like Arduino, and countless open source projects that are simply there to be messed with, and one device that comes out with a (probably) justified need to be locked down, and everyone raises panic? If…

will never harm anyone's ability to tinker with technology that want to. There will always be platforms that are open by design No. Freedom is never granted: it is use or loose it. Most posters miss the cultural aspect, which is more fragile than you might think. E.g. those, who have no longer seen quality colour TV do no longer have a demand for it. When was The Ascent of Man, or The Day the Universe Changed last up…

There's another issue too. It's not just "the iPad is closed, therefore openness is doomed". That would be obviously silly. The problem is that all the powerful forces in our society (barring technology itself) are pushing towards these closed, integrated, proprietary systems. Go look at what ISPs want to do to our internet access! Rather than, as we would expect, having cell phone contracts become more internet-like they want it to be the other way around!

Re: Tinkerer’s Sunset

#67

Post by DougBTX »

rosser wrote: post #30
Periodic wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm pretty sure that plenty of those youngsters who would have loved to tinker got nothing more powerful than a pocket calculator in the 80's because computers were very expensive and hard to come by. I would argue that these calculators were not very tinker-friendly. I think you underestimate the curiosity of kids and their ability to find things to tinker with if they have that inclination.

It's not curiosity or inclination I'm doubting. It's availability of tools. As far as we know, to develop for the platform she's using, she'll also need a "real" computer. And a (paid!) membership in Apple's developer program. And, and, and. That's the wall she needs to scale here -- not merely, "How do I ... " How many people does that wall turn away, who might otherwise have discovered a new passion or talent? How…

How many people does that wall turn away, who might otherwise have discovered a new passion or talent?

None, is my guess. Anyone who wants to tinker now has internet access, that changes everything.

Re: Tinkerer’s Sunset

#68

Post by DougBTX »

blasdel wrote: post #10

If the iPad has a way to enable the Webkit Inspector, you’ve got your tinkerer’s playground right there! The equivalent of Ctrl-Reset is about:blank. Unix OS : iPad : Browser :: MOS CPU : Apple II : BASIC I’m sure that in your day there were curmudgeons who grew up with Altairs railing against the kids these days that bought computers that not only had one-chip CPUs (make your own damn ALU from TTL), they even came f…

Open up your iPhone, fire up safari, and type this into the address bar:

    javascript:alert('hello_world!');
With a bit more glorification, that could turn into a dev environment.

Re: Tinkerer’s Sunset

#69

Post by thomas11 »

DomesticMouse wrote: post #34
orangecat wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I think there is a valid concern about the trend to legislate against tinkering--restricting sales of radios that can hear on cell phone frequencies, DVDCSS, DRM, suppression of chemistry sets, evacuating a school due to misunderstanding of an electronics experiment. Exactly. In Apple's vision of the future, using your own computer in ways they don't approve of is illegal: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/02/app…

This is a question of perception. Faced with something that doesn't make sense, a geek will see it as a challenge, a puzzle, a worthy adversary. Geeks love challenges. A lot of people don't. I have many people who have me on speed dial for when they feel like tossing their laptops out the window. It's for these people that the iPad is designed. All of this "death of tinkering" shows me that none of you guys actually…

It's an odd kind of challenge when you get arrested, tried and sentenced for succeeding.

Re: Tinkerer’s Sunset

#70

Post by flogic »

jdminhbg wrote: post #3

This whole tinkering panic is ridiculous. Did tinkering end when Nintendo released the NES? Or more recently with the Wii? His dad could have bought a word processor instead of a ][e, would he have been able to tinker with that? Some devices are more open than others. This is not a new phenomenon, nor did anything change on Wednesday.

Correct to a point, but only a point. There is a fundamental difference between an iPhone/iPod and an iPad. The iPad has enough interface bandwidth to be a family's only computing device. Which means it's significantly harder to get started tinkering. From that point you have to shell out close to $1k to get Johnny started iPad hacking with few benefits if he turns out to not like it.
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