Response to EFF complaint about student data privacy • Hacker News Board

Re: Response to EFF complaint about student data privacy

#61

Post by carapace » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 7:47 PM UTC

krisdol wrote: post #39

cmcnally wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried DuckDuckGo? With the exception of maps and directions, I actually prefer their search experience to Google's.

It's been my home page for years. Originally i would still often go directly to google for better results, but each year the amount of times I'd do that decreased. Now I'm actually really happy with DDG results, and when I do perform the same search on Google, it ends up being less accurate. I think this is because Google has such a huge belief that personalization yields accuracy, but it doesn't. Past trends don't a…

There came a moment when I realized that I no longer used Google to "google" things.

Re: Response to EFF complaint about student data privacy

#62

Post by profeta » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 7:51 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #56

profeta wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am one of the suckers that try to live with two google accounts. It is maddening. For example, if you do not agree to g+ on your main account and by mistake you select that account on the dropdown from hangouts or the play store* then you get the EULA agreement and there is no way to go back to the app and select another account if you don't agree. Because as soon as you decline you exit the app, and opening the ap…

I find that using Chrome with the multiple accounts feature helps a great deal. You can theme the different Chrome accounts differently to provide a visual hint when you're in the wrong window. And if you consistently log into only one web account from each Chrome account, you never get the multiple-login selector.

yeah, that is easy. i also do that with firefox. i have one themed using a proxy to work, the other not.

i was mostly talking about android apps, where there is hardly an alternative for google services.

Re: Response to EFF complaint about student data privacy

#63

Post by yeukhon » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 8:33 PM UTC

mattlutze wrote: post #48

yeukhon wrote: post #17

Here is a strawman, because I want to challenge the other parallel universe. Let's say this whole pledge thing didn't exist and the only thing that GAFE promise is no ads. Now let's supposed Google is collecting and anonymizing usage data, like most sofwares do, is that a big deal? Since 99% of the people won't read the ToS and most people assume some level of usage data will be collected, what would be people's stan…

They don't collect anonymized data. They collect data, then anonymize it for aggregation by their machine learning systems. They still have data with user information in it. I'd be surprised if it was just "for regular development purposes." I'd wager that collected usage information in drives marketing and sales efforts, to enterprise customers at least but perhaps consumers as well. And while it's not directly used…

Maybe. Google doesn't specify how they are fitting their data in their training program. But to be clear, I didn't say they were just for development purpose. I was imagining that'd be their interpretation. They would see that as telemetry or diagnostic information.

But if they will provide an opt-out option, that will help resolve the issue. EFF isn't wrong, they are catching an implicit fineprint, and Google is interpreting that very differently (not being Google).

Re: Response to EFF complaint about student data privacy

#64

Post by dboreham » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 10:16 PM UTC

pdkl95 wrote: post #59

dboreham wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I did have to endure some major eye-rolling from their mother while I held up the line at student enrollment for 20 minutes while I parsed the agreement ;)

This is more evidence that there should be a minimum-reading-time requirement for contracts to be considered valid. We now have the capability to algorithmically generate an estimate of how long it should take an average person to read any given text. Take something like 3/4 of that time (this value is tunable), and if a person wasn't given at least that much time to read a contract, then there patently cannot be a "…

I tend to read everything so I usually make light of the delay involved by saying something like "I'm sending this to my attorney for review now" (at which point I put on my glasses, head down and page through the doc for while..).

Re: Response to EFF complaint about student data privacy

#65

Post by mavhc » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 10:18 PM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #37

DadFoundMy wrote: post #10

I am an American high school senior and can say confidently that most American students are screwed over pretty extensively when it comes to the software they are forced to use. I have several classes that require the use of proprietary software such as Google classroom, Microsoft silver light, and Adobe flash. On top of that I cannot even remember the last time I was given a document that wasn't a .docx. It would be…

My two sons are in middle school. The school has been transitioning to Google (from self-hosted Windows/Office). They presented a computer/network use and privacy policy for parents to sign. After reading it I sat my kids down and told them to under no circumstances do anything with the school's computers or WiFi network other than activity strictly related to their school assignments. No personal email, no casual we…

Why?, what did it say, and what do you expect to happen?

Re: Response to EFF complaint about student data privacy

#66

Post by mgraczyk » Fri, Dec 04, 2015, 11:11 PM UTC

DadFoundMy wrote: post #20

mgraczyk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't agree with it, I can at least sympathize with the point of view that you should be entitled to abstain from providing data about yourself or your behavior to a third party like Google. However, your objection to the use of proprietary software seems completely misguided to me and reeks of overzealous naivety. The software you describe are tools for educating and conveying information. Why don't you obje…

I do not necessarily have an issue with using proprietary software; I have an issue with being forced to use proprietary software. I do not think a valid comparison can be drawn to being forced into using a specific textbook. There is nothing "active" about a textbook unlike software. There is nothing hidden away from me that I am unable to see in the textbooks. Any biases or malicious activity will be visible and av…

I disagree that "There is nothing hidden away from me that I am unable to see in the textbooks". Biases are often difficult to detect by non-experts.

Textbooks commonly reflect the biases of their authors. These biases range from benign (Sedgewick doesn't like parent pointers, so he rants against them in his book) to malevolent (See any social studies text in Texas).

Without sufficient knowledge of the subject, a reader may be unaware of the author's biases and will shape his view of the subject based on biased information. Most high school students (and people in general) do not have sufficient knowledge of history to carefully analyze the biases of their author, nor do they have enough time to read enough books to access a balanced view.

We accept the negative effects of this bias when the effects are minor, as is the case with most high school textbooks. The benefits of forcing everybody to use the same textbook generally outweigh harm caused by bias.

Re: Response to EFF complaint about student data privacy

#67

Post by psykovsky » Sat, Dec 05, 2015, 12:08 AM UTC

detaro wrote: post #26

psykovsky wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, supposedly educated young persons couldn't even "Save as..." and choose a free format when saving the documents? That's not a software problem...

And having a copy in a free format helps with submitting a correctly formatted .docx how?

They[0] should be saving the documents in a free format, despite the closed source software. Office supports .odf files or some other free format, does it not?

[0] By "they" I mean the persons who created the documents, not the ones who try to edit them using Gnu/Linux...

Re: Response to EFF complaint about student data privacy

#68

Post by beltorak » Sat, Dec 05, 2015, 6:16 AM UTC

soylentcola wrote: post #52

DadFoundMy wrote: post #10

I am an American high school senior and can say confidently that most American students are screwed over pretty extensively when it comes to the software they are forced to use. I have several classes that require the use of proprietary software such as Google classroom, Microsoft silver light, and Adobe flash. On top of that I cannot even remember the last time I was given a document that wasn't a .docx. It would be…

You think that's bad...I work in a university and a different segment of my department is responsible for implementing and managing ExamSoft SofTest on student computers. For those that aren't aware, it's essentially a solution to the issue of BYOD. Students want to use their own laptops to take exams (and I'm sure it's also a lot more economical for the school since each student will already own a computer whereas b…

This is exactly why public organizations should never be reliant on proprietary platforms. If those tools ran in Linux, the solution would be simple: burn some live CDs. Now anyone with a machine that has software more up to date than this SoftTest can handle just needs to reboot to a school-provided live CD. I don't think I'd have much of a problem doing that if I could prevent that bit of proprietary crap from mucking up my laptop. Sadly I don't think that option is readily available (or cost effective) for windows or mac.