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The Mathematics of Paul Graham's Bias Test

chrisstucchio.com

61–70 of 84 posts

Re: The Mathematics of Paul Graham's Bias Test

#61
post #31
post #10

One other thing which both this and PG's original theory get wrong: Their basic premise is wrong, if bias continues to exist after the selection event in question. For example, if YC had (hypothetically) a real bias against black or women entrepreneurs, it is almost certain that future funding rounds, as well as all possible exit scenarios, would exhibit very much of the same bias. In which case, the future "performa…

Let's assume that bias does persist past selection through the duration of the program. Does that change the interpretation when you look at First Round Capital's data that shows its female founders outperforming the males by 63%? I don't think it does. The test may not be sufficient to prove that you have no bias, but it may be good enough to prove that you do. When it does indicate bias, it seems likely to be corre…

There's one thing I don't get though. Being biased often means valuing something that is common among those you favor, but rare among those you don't. So even if one group outperforms the other, why would that in a practical scenario prove that your next candidate should be of that group?

It seems entirely possible that if your program is "narrow" enough you could exhaust the pool of more successful candidates from a minority group. Of course this would be a lot more plausible if you're biased.

Re: The Mathematics of Paul Graham's Bias Test

#62
post #27

(comment reposted from the earlier submission that didn't catch: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10513574 ) Hi Chris --- In the earlier thread, it seemed like some people were reaching different conclusions because they were using different definitions of "bias". I think my working definition would be something like "there existed in the actual applicant pool a subset of unfunded female founders who should have…

My definition is the same as yours - it's exactly about the existence of rejected women who are better than accepted men.

This particular test is terrible for VC since the min return in VC will always be zero. But if you build a noise-sensitive version for something like college admissions, what needs to be true is a) bias manifests as raising/lowering the bar for one group relative to another, and b) both groups have a significant number of members near the cutoff.

As an example of the type of bias this test would detect, consider U-Michigan's point system [1]. An extra +1.0 GPA was added to black applicants. I.e. an Asian person with 3.9 GPA and black person with 2.9 GPA were equivalent. This would result in Asian people having a higher min GPA than black people.

[1] They replaced the point system with vague human heuristics when the supreme court said point systems can't be racist, but vague heuristics can.

Re: The Mathematics of Paul Graham's Bias Test

#63
post #24
post #13

The fact that they have to exclude Uber for no good a priori reason should have been raising red flags all over the place. "But Uber skews the results!" So what? You don't get to just throw out data points you don't like without good reason. If your "test" is that sensitive to individual outliers, then perhaps it isn't really a good test after all.

Dropping outliers is common in statistical analysis.

Dropping outliers is not common in good statistical analysis.

In many labs, your data is looked at very suspiciously if you don't have any outliers.

An outlier may not be thrown out without good reason. Preferably an a priori reason before you do the analysis.

Re: The Mathematics of Paul Graham's Bias Test

#64
post #34

I think the more fundamental flaw in PG's argument, which is just as present here, is that it assumes the populations are otherwise identical. That's obviously not the case -- there's no random assignment for bias -- so this sort of test can't tell you anything direct about casuation. Any credible statistical test for bias should be framed in the language of causal inference, e.g., as described by Judea Pearl: http:/…

This test explicitly does NOT assume the populations are otherwise identical. See the graph right after Theorem 1 - it shows two unequal distributions satisfying the assumptions of the test. That's the whole point.

Re: The Mathematics of Paul Graham's Bias Test

#65
So the alleged flaw in pg's reasoning is his assumption that the best applicants from two large groups of humans should turn out to create equally successful startups on average, if the selection process is not biased.

Is this really such an unreasonable assumption, given that pg restricts the applicability of his bias test to groups of equal ability distribution and that we can assume that both groups have roughly the same amount of capital at their disposal?

The question is if the "equal ability" qualification is sufficient to make sure the distributions are roughly similar. But that is not a mathematical issue.

Re: The Mathematics of Paul Graham's Bias Test

#66

> So rather than comparing mean performance, we'll compare minimum performance. If I'm understanding correctly, the new test is based on a single data point from each group, rather than an aggregate statistic (like mean). I'm no statistician, but it seems like this data would have far too much variance and noise for this to be a useful test. The minimum performer could be someone who had a sudden personal crisis. Or…

Worse, it's about the easiest statistic to manipulate, if you know that is going to be a Key Performance Indicator.

(Having said that, the mean is not difficult to manipulate)

There's an important game theory issue to KPIs:

- if everyone is behaving perfectly, then why bother checking the stat?

- if someone is behaving maliciously, and wants to game the stat, will they be forced to actually improve the situation?

A malicious actor barely has to break stride here.

Re: The Mathematics of Paul Graham's Bias Test

#67

This kind of thinking could be problematic. What would happen if someone compared the performance of whites and persons of African heritage at college?

They would detect if the acceptance criteria were biased. This is a good thing, since after you've measured something you know if a change is in order.

Re: The Mathematics of Paul Graham's Bias Test

#68

So the alleged flaw in pg's reasoning is his assumption that the best applicants from two large groups of humans should turn out to create equally successful startups on average, if the selection process is not biased. Is this really such an unreasonable assumption, given that pg restricts the applicability of his bias test to groups of equal ability distribution and that we can assume that both groups have roughly t…

The point of the post is to relax the "equal ability distribution" assumption. If the distributions are identical, any disparity in outcomes must be caused by bias.

Re: The Mathematics of Paul Graham's Bias Test

#69
Thanks for the write-up Chris. Now I understand why I couldn't follow the path of logic you were laying out in our original discussion in PG's article's comments.

The main problem I was having is that you are assuming our observation variable is the latent skill or potential value variable (which you're calling x here). However, the article by PG was talking solely about the average of returns (let's call it y).

So the reason I was confused is that, assuming that the outcome of a startup is dependent only on x, we are really observing y ~ f(x) = \int_0^1 g(x)h(x)dx, where h is your cut-off criteria for x, g(x) is some unknown payoff distribution for a given skill level, and I'm assuming our x is in [0,1] without loss of generality. So in essence, the real problem here, even if you could see all of the individual returns for a given portfolio, is that you have to perform a very, very difficult deconvolution problem. And I'm pretty sure it's non-identifiable without some other information or additional parametric assumptions.

Thinking out loud a bit, let's assume that y is actually log(return), where a return of 1 is breaking even and 0 is losing everything. Since log(0) is undefined, most startups return 0, and very few exit for less than 1, I would think we could model this as a point-inflated normal distribution: p(y) = c * \delta_0 + (1-c) * N(\mu, \sigma^2). Given this, we could then model our latent parameters (c, \mu, \sigma) as being functions of x. Since the model is separable, we can even just look at the zeros and non-zeros in isolation. Then we can come up with a test from there, but I'm not really sure what that test would be at this point. Anyway, that's a completely different line of thinking, but it seems much more tractable in practice.

Re: The Mathematics of Paul Graham's Bias Test

#70
This still seems like nonsense to me. What if you reject each black candidate (independently) with probability 0.5, and the proceed to perform a fair interview process with all remaining candidates?

Surely the distribution of minimums would then be the same between all skin colours, but you end up employing half the number of black applicants that you should be.

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