Blame it on the programmers! /sarcasm
E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
61–70 of 160 posts
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I'm certainly not making excuses for VW cheating, I think that maybe the EPA needs to revisit its diesel emission standards. The EPA standard is the strictest in the world, and they have successfully ruined many diesel powered devices. Examples: 1) I was recently looking at compact tractors. To meet the standards, new tractors are fitted with Diesel Particulate Filters. Even if they don't flat-out fail (which h…
> One thing that all of the designs have in common is poor performance and piss-poor fuel economy. At what point does it become economical to just run gasoline instead of diesel then (that is, manufacturers selling gasoline models)? If we are talking about diesel still being economical instead of gasoline, but just not as economical as when it was allowed to be more polluting, I'm not sure I can muster much sympathy…
> At what point does it become economical to just run gasoline instead of diesel then (that is, manufacturers selling gasoline models)? If we are talking about diesel still being economical instead of gasoline, but just not as economical as when it was allowed to be more polluting, I'm not sure I can muster much sympathy (but I'm fairly uneducated on the subject, so it may just a matter of not knowing enough).
People run diesels due to durability. They run at lower RPM than similarly designed gas engines, and last longer between rebuilds. They also make more low-end torque, for the same reasons. Both of these factors are extremely important to the types of equipment that you see diesels in, probably even moreso than the problems caused by diesels. For many years, Diesel fuel was more expensive than gas, but people kept running them anyway in the applications for which they were most appropriate. For cars, yeah, we'll probably just see the death of diesel in that space.
> Did the EPA make rules that required that, or did manufacturers mess up in their attempt to offer the same features as before? Did the EPA dictate this solution, or did the market respond with a poor solution to an EPA requirement on emissions?
The market responded with the only solutions it could come up with. The EPA made standards that are impossible to meet using any available technology without causing some or all of the problems I mentioned.
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#63Why doesn't the EPA simply ban the sale of any car manufactured by VW until they start passing the new emissions tests? Even better, begin requiring previously purchased VW cars pass these emissions tests. If the cars don't pass the new emissions tests then VW is required to reimburse the blue book value of the car for false advertising, fraud, and acting in bad faith.
I want VW to be held accountable, but I don't want them to decimate the company.
While I want clean air, and believe in global warming; I'm afraid that the EPA will use VW as a reason to tighten emmission standards to to point where we will need to buy new vechicles in order to drive. I can't afford, nor really want a new vechicle.
I'm at the point now that I pray my vechicles passes smog checks. I'm not working as a mechanic now, but I have been to automotive school. I take those smog results, I get every two years, and tune my vechicles appropriately. My vechicles are tuned properly. I use a secondary 02 sensor attached to secondary bung holes before, and after the catalytic converter. All, so I can get the engines in perfect stoichiometric values. I clean out my erg valves. I change the oil. I double check some emmission sensors with a DVOM. I look for that lazy sensor and replace it if it's not in spec.
Even with all that, it seems like it's a crap shoot on wether my vechicles pass.
(I can't blame the EPA, or CARB totally. I have found gross errors in Motor Emission publications. Off subject, but smog stations are only required to have one emmission's reference on site. Most shops usually just have the current copy of Motor's Emmisson Manual. It's cheap, and that's what they show you if your vechicle fails the visual. The publication is filled with errors. If you failed the visual on your smog test, double check the information with Mitchell Manuals. I have never found an error in a Mitchell manual. Off subject--yes, but when your arguing with a smog tech. you might remember this post.)
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course, gasoline cars went through similar pains in the 70's, and eventually came out better than ever. Emissions controls were really what drove electronic fuel injection [0], which was unreliable at first but far superior to carburetors today. [0]: See motorcycles, which stuck with carburetors as long as possible, until they were forced to implement electronic fuel injection around 2005 due to tightening emissio…
Very true - regulation undeniably accelerates technological advancement for emissions technology ... I think that the key is just striking the right balance. I was just trying to express that in the case of Diesels, the EPA may have done too much too fast. As an aside, even when the technology matures and goes from "sucks"->"unquestionably better", all of this is not without cost. New car prices have significantly ou…
My current 2013 Ford Focus sticker price matched up exactly with inflation on the sticker price of the 97 Escort it replaced.
I was kind of amazed given all the safety improvements.
I did get 250,000 miles out of the escort before the salt rusted out too much.
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#65Why doesn't the EPA simply ban the sale of any car manufactured by VW until they start passing the new emissions tests? Even better, begin requiring previously purchased VW cars pass these emissions tests. If the cars don't pass the new emissions tests then VW is required to reimburse the blue book value of the car for false advertising, fraud, and acting in bad faith.
Much as I'd like to see it happen, bankrupting a multi-billion dollar company isn't something that regulators do on a lark.
A muli-year global emissions cheating campaign isn't a lark.
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#66I'd love to get my car tested... Anyone know how I could do that? I have a 2015 Q5 TDI which while not specifically mentioned has the same size engine as several of the ones that are mentioned (3.0-liter). I would be shocked if they just started using the defeat device in the 2016 model year for the Q5 considering they were already getting pushback from the EPA before the 2016 models even got announced. I bought the…
You bought a Q5 3.0 Diesel for clean emmisions? Wait... What?
I'm surely not going to defend VW or any of the associated companies for cheating. But it should be kind of obvious that a car with such an engine does all but clean emmisions.
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Porsche have a bit more go juice than a lot of the other stuff. If they did a ECU remap (likely) coupled with some hw changes to the engine (maybe, maybe not), they would likely have at least suspected something. Like, I can tune my Lancer Evo, with stock parts, to around 360 chp / 290 whp from 291 chp / 220 whp. This will put more strain on the parts, to nuke the little gas mileage, up the emissions (no CARB), and v…
The rated horsepower on the 3.0 TDI in the Cayenne is the exact same as in all of the other applications I listed - do you have any source that it had a different map installed? I'm kind of basing my whole theory on the concept that it didn't because the rated output is identical.
The thing has a 150 kW to 191 kW rating, granted on closer look it seems the Porsche one is shared across a lot of trims so maybe they didn't see it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_diese...
guess audi is the one that could be in deeper trouble.
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Porsche have a bit more go juice than a lot of the other stuff. If they did a ECU remap (likely) coupled with some hw changes to the engine (maybe, maybe not), they would likely have at least suspected something. Like, I can tune my Lancer Evo, with stock parts, to around 360 chp / 290 whp from 291 chp / 220 whp. This will put more strain on the parts, to nuke the little gas mileage, up the emissions (no CARB), and v…
The rated horsepower on the 3.0 TDI in the Cayenne is the exact same as in all of the other applications I listed - do you have any source that it had a different map installed? I'm kind of basing my whole theory on the concept that it didn't because the rated output is identical.
The thing has a 150 kW to 191 kW rating, granted on closer look it seems the Porsche one is shared across a lot of trims so maybe they didn't see it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_diese...
guess audi is the one that could be in deeper trouble.
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#69It's worth noting that the newly replaced CEO of the VW group was the CEO of Porsche.
The CEO of VW was just fired for allowing this scandal on his watch, and he was replaced by a guy guilty of (at the very least) the same exact thing.
Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches
#70I'd love to get my car tested... Anyone know how I could do that? I have a 2015 Q5 TDI which while not specifically mentioned has the same size engine as several of the ones that are mentioned (3.0-liter). I would be shocked if they just started using the defeat device in the 2016 model year for the Q5 considering they were already getting pushback from the EPA before the 2016 models even got announced. I bought the…
You bought a Q5 3.0 Diesel for clean emmisions? Wait... What? I'm surely not going to defend VW or any of the associated companies for cheating. But it should be kind of obvious that a car with such an engine does all but clean emmisions.
Yes. It's a 4500lb vehicle that averages 30mpg and supposedly passes the strictest emissions standards in the world... If I was in the market for a smaller car I would of course looked at models with a smaller engine (though I could have easily found myself in the same situation with a 2.0l TDI).