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Interview Humiliation

deliberate-software.com

61–70 of 94 posts

Re: Interview Humiliation

#61
Assholes can be unavoidable. You may land a job at a point where there are none. Over time they hire more assholes.

Get the offer from the assholes, and use it as a bargaining chip.

Re: Interview Humiliation

#62
post #25

it is obviously a dubious story. Wouldn't the first thing you would say as soon as you enter the room is that you got an invitation to 9h30 and not 9h? Then what did op reply to their questions such as 'can't you afford a real machine'? he just mubbled? I would reply very harshly to such comments and show them who is the weakling. While they were total assholes, you were not in a desperate enough situation that would…

> Then what did op reply to their questions such as 'can't you afford a real machine'? he just mubbled? I would reply very harshly to such comments and show them who is the weakling.

That's a rather macho way of handling things. Personally, and i speak only for myself here, i would be miserable in a job that required me to behave that way, but perhaps it's fine for others. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Just bear in mind that not everyone functions that way, some of us prefer respectful and constructive environments. But i, too, concede that that's just my preference, and there are probably different personality types that will gravitate to different office cultures.

For the record, i still think it's boorish to make such comments. I know that i would also probably just mumble and steam in such a situation (after all, i'm in people-pleasing mode, i want the job, but at the same time, i'm being goaded).

Re: Interview Humiliation

#63
The behavior of the interview team was truly appalling here, and this was a good post. It's important to be aware of just how bad things can get in technical interviews.

However, much as I'm always game for a good horror story, I'm more interested in the damage that the ordinary, polite, courteous technical interview/exam may be inflicting on people and our industry.

As I've posted in the past, I believe that tech interviews are essentially entrance exams that software developers are forced to take over and over. Actuaries, for instance, take exams on topics that correlate closely with mathematics classes, like numerical analysis or vector calc and linear algebra. These exams are recognized for what they are - rigorous entrance exams to show competency in core subjects. We don't call these exams "interviews" and leave it to an some dude who sits in cubicle D-12 to decide how he feels like testing an experienced Actuary's understanding of integration by parts today.

The reason I prefer to focus on the polite, respectful, professional interviews is that it helps us see the fundamental problems with our approach, rather than the misbehavior that can occur in any interview situation. I do think that the intense technical interviews in our field have taken the place of the bar, the actuarial exams, the medical boards. However, most professional entrance exams adhere to a code of conduct - students have an associated study path, they get a respected credential (reassuring their peers and hiring managers that they really do possess this knowledge and ability), they are aware of who their examiners will be and are assured that they possess the proper credentials and expertise to conduit the exams properly, fairly, and most of all, consistently.

I really would like to see developers, as a profession, determine how our competence will be established relative to our peers.

Now, one more thing - I said that I prefer to focus on the polite interviews than the horror stories, but I absolutely do acknowledge that a process like tech interviews may be unusually prone to these horror stories. In short, horror stories like this may not be entirely orthogonal to the core issues, they may very much be a common side effect.

Instead of highly respected practitioners and acknowledge experts sitting on a board, we go grab a few developers and hope they know what they're doing. When I defended my MS project, Berkeley didn't go out and grab a few people who seem to know the industry well enough (uh, I guess, oh, he's busy, well, this other dude seems pretty good, have him sit in) and have them decide whether I would receive a degree. I'm not saying there is no variance among experts, some may pass you, others may not, without question. But I could be certain that the people on my committee were qualified to evaluate my work, that I had rights as a student sitting for an exam, and I would receive a lasting and meaningful credential with feedback (not just a "we've decided not to proceed with your application at this time, but we'll keep your resume…).

With such a capricious and chaotic process, yeah, the sort of thing described here is more likely to happen.

Re: Interview Humiliation

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being half an hour late is not really an excuse for their sociopathic behaviour.

Yes, because it happened exactly as written, and totally wasn't embellished at all.

Do you have any special reason to doubt his story so vehemently? Should we dismiss any workplace abuse story as embellishment? Bosses and coworkers are always friendly and professional?

I know people that have suffered boss/coworkers bullying and I find this story plausible. And I know this industry and some people can be very inmature and unprofessional.

Re: Interview Humiliation

#65

I never found out if I had done something to make everyone so angry. I now suspect that they were massively turned off by a host of things. It's not you, it's them. You are lucky you got out of there, you would have been miserable.

I know several people who worked for a company with an abusive culture, and they were definitely miserable. What's interesting is that these types of interviewers attract people who are themselves abusive, and eventually (without outside stimulus) the company becomes a homogeneous mix of assholes. It sounds bizarre, and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't been told the story by trusted friends.

Re: Interview Humiliation

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, just no. A candidate is taking time from their busy schedule and are considering making a contribution to your company/team/project. You should appreciate that more. In the real world, shit happens. There are an inordinate amount of things that can go wrong and delay someone. In this case it's all the worse, since the problem was the interviewers own organization. The interviewer should be apologizing on behalf o…

No, I think there is justification. In the real world, people aren't stoic and patient, especially executives who have their day planned out to the minute. The applicant did everything right here, and I'm not defending the interviewers, just trying to think about how that situation comes about. If the applicant was on time, would the interview have gone the same way? I don't think so.

You're conflating explanation with justification. Being a pissy asshole like described is explanable, but not justified: it betrays a deep lack of professionalism, and is a giant black mark on the interviewer.

Equivalent situation: If someone turns up 30 minutes late because they wanted to catch a couple extra zs, that's also understandable, but is just as unjustified and makes them just as much a jackass.

As professionals, we are called to treat everyone with dignity and respect, no matter what bug happened to crawl up our ass this morning.

Re: Interview Humiliation

#68
I'd be willing to play devil's advocate and say it was mainly the time that peeved them (peeved them enough to fire the recruiter for giving everyone the wrong time), but they really should be professional enough to not turn into 5 year olds when they get annoyed.

Re: Interview Humiliation

#69

Almost everyone on this site seems to have gone through similar interview experiences one time or the other. Our profession can get rid of this malady only with collective effort, as the author suggests: Lastly, this story fills me with an overwhelming desire to never continue the cycle of abuse. I strive every interview to try to respectfully work with the candidate, and never humiliate them. I want every person I i…

I make a point to do this in all of our company's interviews. Even if they don't end up working for us, if they speak highly about us to other developers, it can have a positive network effect. And even then, outside of corporate interests, everyone wants to be loved and appreciated - isn't that enough of a reason to be kind to each other even in situations like an interview?

Re: Interview Humiliation

#70
post #51

What's the appropriate response as the interviewee in that sort of situation? They've completely turned you off to the idea of working for the company, should you just excuse yourself and end the interview?

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