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18F launches cloud.gov

18f.gsa.gov

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Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#61

Post by andrefrancisco »

js2 wrote: post #56
andrefrancisco wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick clarification. 18F is not assigned work by USDS. Federal agencies come to 18F with proposed projects and then 18F chooses which ones it works on based on staffing/scope/impact etc. I'm an 18F employee.

What is it like working for 18F? Office space, flexibility of hours, commute, workstation, work attire, etc? Would someone who prefers the startup atmosphere survive for long?

I love it. We have a distributed team so many people work from home and then we have offices inside GSA buildings in SF, Chicago, NYC, and DC. Hours are very flexible, we just try to have some overlap with teams in various time zones. In D.C., where I am, some people work 10-6, some noon-8, and some take breaks to pick up kids from school and then work at night. Attire is very relaxed. The kind of place where if someone wears a suit you ask what they have to do that day. We're a Mac shop, which is pretty rare in the government. No real software restrictions, and we provide most of our own IT/ops support. I'm working from the roof of the GSA building right now. View of the Washington and Jefferson monuments is hard to beat.

Morale is really high. Culture and work/life balance is super important to the team and to management. People feel compelled to tweet about how much they like their job. I haven't worked at a startup, but many have and are happy to be here. There are plenty of government frustrations, but the size of the impact of our mission greatly outweighs any day to day annoyances. For me, the best thing is that when there is a problem, whether it's management, bureaucracy, or technology, the attitude is to address it openly and head on. And 18F has a group of really smart people, so those problems rarely last very long.

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#62

Post by wslack »

amorphid wrote: post #45
timdorr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USDS is part of the White House. They are directly under the President. 18F is basically a contracting agency, run by and for the government. They basically take on work that's assigned to them by the USDS. The USDS does work as well, but typically more with a leadership and policy role.

As I understand it, 18F started off as part of USDS. But the Obama administration wanted the program to outlive his tenure as POTUS, so they tucked 18F into the GSA.

I would be curious where this impression came from, as someone that works at 18F.

Here's more info on how we came from the Presidential Innovation Fellows program: https://18f.gsa.gov/2015/03/20/one-year-in-and-looking-forwa...

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#63

Post by sliverstorm »

js2 wrote: post #55

I loathe the politics/bureaucracy of working at large companies, and yet oddly find myself wanting to work for 18F.

There are upsides to big companies, and if they can keep the downsides (beuracracy, etc) under control... Once upon a time HP was supposedly a phenomenal place to work.

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#64

Post by kingkilr »

jdmichal wrote: post #37
sswezey wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the difference between the USDS and 18F, it seems like a blurred line.

Seems like it's mostly a philosophical difference. Two directions to the same goal. http://ben.balter.com/2015/04/22/the-difference-between-18f-...

(I work at USDS@VA)

I wouldn't say it's a philosophical difference. We're definitely tackling the problem in two different ways, but that's not because either group thinks the other is wrong, it's because this is a big problem that requires attacking it from many angles.

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#65

Post by gonehome »

Zach_the_Lizard wrote: post #30
cryowaffle wrote: post #10

Glad to see the healthcare.gov debacle leading to a positive shift in mentality at .gov.

As someone who worked in the Federal sphere, nothing's changed at all. The same procurement rules and regulations remain in place with all the issues they cause. 18F is a nice experiment, and they do have some wins, but they are just a drop in the bucket. The whole procurement and management process is so broken that it's a wonder any project gets completed. The same few bad actors keep winning contracts over and ove…

My (admittedly limited) understanding of why contractors are used instead of government employees is because it's notoriously hard for the government to fire people who aren't good. The premium cost of contractors is worth it when you're able to fire them if they don't meet expectations.

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#66

Post by melodykramer »

js2 wrote: post #56
andrefrancisco wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick clarification. 18F is not assigned work by USDS. Federal agencies come to 18F with proposed projects and then 18F chooses which ones it works on based on staffing/scope/impact etc. I'm an 18F employee.

What is it like working for 18F? Office space, flexibility of hours, commute, workstation, work attire, etc? Would someone who prefers the startup atmosphere survive for long?

I work from my home outside of Chapel Hill, NC so my commute is from my bedroom to my home office. I'm in a t-shirt and yoga pants right now.

It's the best job I've had - I have autonomy, flexibility, and the ability to make an impact on a daily basis. It's really nice to think about how many people you reach on a daily basis. The problems you get to work on are challenging and complex - I'm learning new things every day.

I came from the journalism world, not a startup - so I can't speak to whether it's similar. I will say this: We have a "Yes, how can I help you do that?" philosophy, which I find refreshing and really delightful.

For example, right now I'm working on an onboarding Slack bot (code: https://github.com/18F/dolores-landingham-bot) that will help acclimate new employees to 18F. Got the idea. Threw it around. Everyone liked it. We're building it. And then we plan to write up how we did it, so others can use it too.

That's the best feeling - sharing what you learn, and not being afraid to go public with every bit. Happy to say more.

Mel (@mkramer on Twitter)

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#67

Post by bmogilefsky »

Splines wrote: post #50

> The magic happens when an infrastructure team encapsulates their expertise, and then exposes that expertise as a service which can be used directly by developers. I like this statement - how do you deal with educating team members on areas that require deep expertise? (e.g.., security, accessibility, localization). Do you offer training, brown-bags, educational videos, or do you say "don't worry about it - if you d…

[Author of the 18F blog post here]

Accessibility and L10N are app-level concerns, not something that cloud.gov is going to be able to help with. However, 18F works on other efforts aimed at helping people do those things better, eg https://18f.gsa.gov/2015/09/28/web-design-standards/

As for security and other devops concerns, which is what cloud.gov is about: This is why we're in a scaling/pilot phase now. A successful PaaS should reduce the depth of expertise needed to do those things right. That said, there are things like awareness of 12factor.net app design principles which are very unevenly distributed in government once you get outside of 18F. We will be concentrating on generating materials and documentation to make learning about those things in the context of cloud.gov as self-service as possible, and expand the pilot outward to those who need help even approaching the concept of a PaaS once we have more of those materials.

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#68

Post by bmogilefsky »

pimlottc wrote: post #42
michaelmior wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took me a couple viewings to decide if this was a successful launch or if something went wrong.

It is maddening trend, how a few seconds of video is often clipped out of a larger video and inserted, on infinite loop, in another document with no direct reference or explanation.

Good point... I'll make the GIF a link back to the original YouTube video.

EDIT: Which is here, by the way! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6u4WjYaX2Q

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#69

Post by Zach_the_Lizard »

gonehome wrote: post #65
Zach_the_Lizard wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who worked in the Federal sphere, nothing's changed at all. The same procurement rules and regulations remain in place with all the issues they cause. 18F is a nice experiment, and they do have some wins, but they are just a drop in the bucket. The whole procurement and management process is so broken that it's a wonder any project gets completed. The same few bad actors keep winning contracts over and ove…

My (admittedly limited) understanding of why contractors are used instead of government employees is because it's notoriously hard for the government to fire people who aren't good. The premium cost of contractors is worth it when you're able to fire them if they don't meet expectations.

There are many reasons they use contractors. Here are some of the reasons:

1) The agency in question has a hard cap on the number of employees, but has more work than it can accomplish with just this allowed staff. Contractors are the only option.

2) The government is building something and doesn't need (or thinks it doesn't need) to keep the experts around afterwords. For instance, you're building a bridge and won't need all of the construction workers when it's finished.

3) To get around the broken hiring process

4) To get around the broken union rules

5) To theoretically save money vs. doing it in house

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#70

Post by amorphid »

wslack wrote: post #62
amorphid wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, 18F started off as part of USDS. But the Obama administration wanted the program to outlive his tenure as POTUS, so they tucked 18F into the GSA.

I would be curious where this impression came from, as someone that works at 18F. Here's more info on how we came from the Presidential Innovation Fellows program: https://18f.gsa.gov/2015/03/20/one-year-in-and-looking-forwa...

Was talking to a Presidential Innovation Fellow, and probably just misunderstood what they were saying, or perhaps the Fellow had incorrect information.
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