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Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

deirdre.net

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Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#61

Post by notacoward »

I agree that programming as a career sucks a lot more than it used to. I understand that part of my saying so is the result of changes in me or my own circumstances. Life was better when I didn't have to deal so much with product and project managers, when I didn't have to be the "leader" creating momentum and mentoring those who don't want to be mentored. I do miss the days when I was an individual contributor minding my own business.

On the other hand, that doesn't explain everything. As the computing industry has become bigger and more lucrative, it has also become less like a gentleman's race and more like a cage fight. The primary mode of interaction has shifted from collaboration to competition. There are always more projects in any given space, creating more factions each more determined to sling FUD at each other so that their project and their investment in it stay relevant. There are more sub-sub-domains of knowledge, with those on the peaks of each sneering at the others. The environment for women has become measurably worse than it used to be; I worked with a higher percentage of women on Encore's kernel team twenty years ago than I do now even at Red Hat. It's a nasty, aggression-soaked environment, and anybody who doesn't believe that must not have read the other comments on this very page. I can tell you, it didn't used to be that way.

Programming as an activity has its ups and downs. Programming as a career has started to just plain suck.

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#62

Post by eterm »

notacoward wrote: post #61

I agree that programming as a career sucks a lot more than it used to. I understand that part of my saying so is the result of changes in me or my own circumstances. Life was better when I didn't have to deal so much with product and project managers, when I didn't have to be the "leader" creating momentum and mentoring those who don't want to be mentored. I do miss the days when I was an individual contributor mindi…

> measurably

Do you have some measurements to back this up? I could believe it's true, but you shouldn't say something is measurably worse and then not provide those measurements.

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#64

Post by notacoward »

eterm wrote: post #62
notacoward wrote: post #61

I agree that programming as a career sucks a lot more than it used to. I understand that part of my saying so is the result of changes in me or my own circumstances. Life was better when I didn't have to deal so much with product and project managers, when I didn't have to be the "leader" creating momentum and mentoring those who don't want to be mentored. I do miss the days when I was an individual contributor mindi…

> measurably Do you have some measurements to back this up? I could believe it's true, but you shouldn't say something is measurably worse and then not provide those measurements.

http://fortune.com/2015/03/26/report-the-number-of-women-ent...

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#65

Post by secstate »

Hrm:

https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fdeirdre.net%2F...

I think the more likely reason why validation errors show up all over the internet is because for 99% of business/entertainment/service on the internet they are irrelevant.

Personally I would not like Firefox to fail to render on HTML validation errors, what a terrible idea that would be.

In the meantime, I have no idea what HTML validation has to to do with not enjoying working for someone else.

Swap "programming" from the sentence: Programming for somone else sucks. With "carpentry" or "plumbing" or "manufacturing" or "cooking" and you'll have the same bitter, burned out employees. The trick to life is to avoid being bitter when asked to get things done, and rather take pride in having been asked to help someone get something done. If you don't feel appreciated in your work, look for something else to do. If there is literally nothing else you can do, being bitter isn't going to make life any better.

Not to sound like an asshole, but I have very little patience for people who lack creativity in how they use their time. Yes, I've been frustrated at my work before, and listless in the face of a project I don't want to start/finish, but I find a way to keep working, or I'd be looking for something else to do.

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#66

Post by xlm1717 »

jevgeni wrote: post #30
adwn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, after a law professor retires s/he immediately stops thinking about law? The proper analogy would be: "So, after a lawyer retires s/he immediately stops practicing law?" Yes, s/he does.

So, when you retire will you immediately stop practicing programming?

I would hope when I retire I will have the money to immediately forget anything about programming and instead remember how to say "Where is Gate A?" in 20 different languages.

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#67

Post by dean »

This article made me angry. Why does she care that cnn.com has 349 errors that can only be found by running a validator? The web is a huge place. Does anyone really expect that every single site out there is going to be perfect? And you're going to be depressed to find out that it isn't. And change careers. Give me a break. Her complaints are akin to a writer whining about grammar, and quitting their job because there's so much bad grammar out there. Good riddance!

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#68

Post by mistermann »

notacoward wrote: post #61

I agree that programming as a career sucks a lot more than it used to. I understand that part of my saying so is the result of changes in me or my own circumstances. Life was better when I didn't have to deal so much with product and project managers, when I didn't have to be the "leader" creating momentum and mentoring those who don't want to be mentored. I do miss the days when I was an individual contributor mindi…

> become less like a gentleman's race and more like a cage fight. The primary mode of interaction has shifted from collaboration to competition.

Man does this resonate...for the last several years now I have recurring encounters of people in programming having no interest in doing or discovering what's Right, but rather only concerned about Winning petty arguments, pushing their agenda/tool/framework. The culture of programming to me feels largely corrupt. Or maybe I'm just in a bad mood for the last few years.

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#69

Post by irishcoffee »

jevgeni wrote: post #51
treerock wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you really? She isn't quitting her passion, she's quitting doing it for someone else, i.e. her job. >"It’s not to say that I have no interest in software. Of course I do...What I mean is that I can’t do it for someone else the way I used to...I have some ideas of what I want to do software-wise, but I’m not ready to announce them yet."

So she isn't retiring, is that what you are saying?

She hasn't been self-employed in 38 years. Unless she is in some very unusual life situation, you don't try your hand at self-employment, after 38 years, unless you can afford to fuck up in grandiose style and still be financially secure.

So yes, she is retiring.

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#70

Post by ebbv »

outworlder wrote: post #33
ebbv wrote: post #11

This is nonsense. Anyone who knows anything about developing on the web should know that W3 Validation means nothing. It's not even something worth striving for. They are not analogous to actual programming errors.

I think many comments like this are missing the point. You don't get a "Haskell/C/Java/Lisp validator". You have a compiler, which will flag obvious crap as crap. The possibly crap stuff are flagged as warnings. And then you have a linter when you want your crap to smell slightly better. But the point is that obviously wrong stuff on the web should give you errors, not a vaguely working page, sometimes, in some brows…

It is you who has missed the point. I mention in my comment specifically that W3 validation errors are not comparable to compiler errors or run time errors in programming.

As far as things working in one browser and not another, if you're working with standard features they tend to work across all modern browsers. If you are using features which are still only candidates, then yes they may not work but you've chosen to implement non-standard features so you've done this to yourself.

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