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The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

nytimes.com

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Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#61
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps American sentiment is based on China's hundreds of years of bad policy relegating those same millions of people to extreme poverty? [edit: it might be more fair to say decades here, if you believe we can only attribute "policy" to the Communist Party]

I think you're right in your edit, the Community Party has only been in power for decades. Prior to that, China was in turmoil due to colonization and imperialism by the U.S., France, Britain, and other European states, as well as Japan. I believe it's more accurate to say that the American sentiment is derived from China being a rising world power ideologically backed by Communism, and an actual threat to America's…

We have always been at war with EastAsia.

When I was in junior high school, I had to do a project on propaganda. This was during the time of the USSR and I had the great idea to listen to Radio Moscow and compare it to western media. My project was to find examples of different kinds of proganda and I dutifully did so. Eventually I had to find an example of "the big lie". I singled out a story of a big military victory by the USSR (probably in Afghanistan, but I don't really remember). It was not reported in any other news outlet, so I used it as my example of "the big lie". Of course I got an A+ for the project.

Some weeks later, I happened to notice a one paragraph story buried in the back of the newspaper which finally reported the soviet victory. I then started to look for evidence that my other examples of propaganda were incorrect. I readily found such evidence.

I have always felt embarrassed by they episode. It was my first revelation that media outlets have political agenda and that they adjust the way they report news based on that political agenda. But even more important was that I had participated in that agenda by re-reporting that view of the world to my classmates.

It is amazing how easy it is to allow a mixture of arrogance, pride and prejudice to galvanize a view of the world that is just wrong. You then spread that false-certainty to others. Together you work tirelessly to maintain that fiction without ever knowing it.

I have often thought that I wish I could have redone my project on propaganda after I made these realizations. Such is the strength of propaganda, though, I'm quite sure my revised project would have resulted in an F.

The OP does not realize his error, I am quite sure. He probably can not be made to realize his error and will argue vehemently on behalf of the puppet masters pulling the strings of his belief. I think the best we can do is to try to notice the strings pulling our own limbs, for we are surely not immune to this problem.

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#62
post #4

It's really weird to me how commonplace the attitude of "It is what it is" and "Government can't do anything". The air and water quality in the US is vastly better since the passage of laws that created and empowered the EPA (Created by the Republican President Nixon). The endangered species act has had many similar successes. I live on Maui. The waters are now filled with Green Sea Turtles and Humpback whales that w…

"Government can't do anything" meme tends to be pushed by organizations that actively want less government. The sort of groups that listen to people like Grover Norquest who said: "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." While there is a lot to be said about the idea of efficiency in government it isn't the same as…

Government is quite different from infrastructure.

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense is that view incorrect? The cost of access to the political process in America is astronomically high and keeps increasing, and acquiring the amount of money it now takes to be competitive in an election requires adopting a set of positions that are friendly to whatever industries have the most money to give. What part of that analysis is wrong? What counterexample can you offer?

While money buys political access, a large part of the responsibility does rest with the voters (who are mostly ordinary people, not big money) who keep voting for reps (or don't vote) who support regressive policies. Also big money doesn't control the govt -- there are lots of times where they don't get their way -- immigration reform being a prime example where nativist sentiment has stalled it for more than a deca…

[deleted]

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#64

Yes, a vast number of the world's poorest population have been raised out of nominal abject poverty, this is true. What Kristof doesn't state, however, are these facts: 1. Those people live almost entirely in China and India. 2. The rise in nominal wealth has come from a tremendous increase in energy consumption. 3. Both nations have extreme environmental problems, including the worst air pollution situations in the…

I'd like to know more about #4 and #5. Do you have links to sites/articles/papers for more information? I'm having trouble searching for good sources.

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#65
post #4

It's really weird to me how commonplace the attitude of "It is what it is" and "Government can't do anything". The air and water quality in the US is vastly better since the passage of laws that created and empowered the EPA (Created by the Republican President Nixon). The endangered species act has had many similar successes. I live on Maui. The waters are now filled with Green Sea Turtles and Humpback whales that w…

While I don't disagree government has been at time effective (in making life better and improving the world), one doesn't have to look very hard to find to find instances where they have not been effective or even counterproductive. The government of today isn't necessarily the government of 30 years ago. It's bigger. Maybe slower. Maybe filled with worse people. I don't know that all these things are true but as they say in the stock trading commercials... "past performance is no guarantee of future success".

But I do believe people shouldn't give up and should be informed and try to participate in elections and citizen activisms. I mean... if we don't try how can we keep the corrupt from running the show?

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#66

Yes, a vast number of the world's poorest population have been raised out of nominal abject poverty, this is true. What Kristof doesn't state, however, are these facts: 1. Those people live almost entirely in China and India. 2. The rise in nominal wealth has come from a tremendous increase in energy consumption. 3. Both nations have extreme environmental problems, including the worst air pollution situations in the…

3. China is working on that by building a lot of nuclear reactors. Give it time.

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#67
post #35

"We cover planes that crash, not planes that take off." It always fascinates me how much my world view and the world view of those around me is based on the exceptional and not the mundane. The news outlets report the news assuming that the audience knows what's normal. When the news is used to become informed about the world many people come away with a skewed impression of reality. I am of the opinion that people w…

This is very important to realize about "the news". The conceit is that consuming the news will make you informed about the state of the world in the present, that is utterly false. It's a tiny soda straw view of some of the more exceptional things happening around the world at any given time. Actually educating people about the overall state of what's going on around the world is a much more difficult task which most news media organizations more or less avoid doing.

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#68

Yes, a vast number of the world's poorest population have been raised out of nominal abject poverty, this is true. What Kristof doesn't state, however, are these facts: 1. Those people live almost entirely in China and India. 2. The rise in nominal wealth has come from a tremendous increase in energy consumption. 3. Both nations have extreme environmental problems, including the worst air pollution situations in the…

> And finally: the foundations of modern economic wealth, vast quantities of nonrenewable resources, tapped at uttelry unsustainable rates, are quite simply not sustainable. Without looking to this basis, effectively the fuel in the tank, observations of altitude or velocity tell little.

the fuel in the tank has been increasing a lot actually in the past 20 years. Did you notice that the US became the first producer of petrol ? And vast amount of natural gas have been discovered, and we have uranium for the next 10 000 of years at least.

The real question is: are we running out of Energy ? The answer is a resounding NO. and Peak petrol never happened, despite everybody claiming it would, 20 years ago.

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#69

The only reason that I already know this is Hans Rosling. His work is excellent, check it out if you haven't already. http://www.gapminder.org/ https://www.google.com/webhp?q=hans+rosling&tbm=vid

Yes, yes, yes, Rosling is right all the way and he is a very good communicator on top of that, and hates the political correctness.
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