It’s gotten harder to lose weight and not for the reasons you think • Hacker News Board

Re: It’s gotten harder to lose weight and not for the reasons you think

#61

Post by ZoFreX » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:32 PM UTC

Kurtz79 wrote: post #15

cousin_it wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not so simple. People are different. Some people won't need your plan because they stay at low weight no matter what they eat. Others won't be able to follow your plan because it would require superhuman willpower. I'm an example of the first category. I'm 6'2'' and 160 lbs, and have been like this for years. At age 27 I spent a whole year working from home, eating at McDonalds 1-2 times every day, going to slee…

My favorite explanation I found on the issue is on "The Hacker's Diet" (free ebook). https://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/e4/ The author's theory is that the issue is not on of metabolism, but that people overeating do not have a good "I'm full" mechanism. Most people like you that "can eat all they want and not gain weight" in reality... don't. They balance out their intake naturally, if not in the scope of a meal, ove…

The author's theory? Why do I care what the creator of Autodesk's theory on weight loss and diet is?

Why is Hacker News so fast to pooh-pooh the study in the linked article and declare it as fake science, but we're happy to accept a completely unproven and untested theory from someone with no expertise in the field? Because it's called "The Hacker's Diet"?

You wouldn't give a nutritionist's opinion on Javascript frameworks much credence, so don't take your diet advice from programmers.

Re: It’s gotten harder to lose weight and not for the reasons you think

#62

Post by ZoFreX » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:34 PM UTC

leemuro wrote: post #35

thomasahle wrote: post #26

TL/DR: It's gotten harder to lose weight, because people eat more crap: artificial sweeteners, steroids, pollutants, plastic packaging, pesticides, meat, antidepressants. A positive read would be: if you want to be healthy, don't focus solely on energy intake, but also what chemicals you are subjecting your body to.

"Chemicals" are a scapegoat. Everything you put in your face is a "chemical". Folks just need to eat food that isn't just a bunch of empty dense calories. Stuff that actually satisfies you.

No one said "chemicals" are bad. The person you're replying to said we should be conscious of which chemicals we put into our body - which is absolutely true.

Re: It’s gotten harder to lose weight and not for the reasons you think

#63

Post by jasode » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:35 PM UTC

Programmatic wrote: post #39

jasode wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anecdote here, but I've found that for me the key to weight loss has been exercise-first. [...] It's hard to believe that exercise isn't the key to weight loss when I burn 2,000 calories on my Saturday morning run. You specified that you were only speaking for yourself but I think that for most people , a healthy steady-state weight is easier to achieve by smart food choices rather than exercise. Recommending exerci…

> Optimizing eating habits (without causing starvation) is much easier than running an extra 10 miles on a treadmill. This disparity in effort is obvious if you ask obese people if it's easier to eat a glazed donut (consume 200 calories) or run 6 mph for 20 minutes (burns 200 calories). Anecdotally, I find that the initial bit of exercise makes the biggest impact. The added benefit of the "exercise first" approach is…

>The added benefit of the "exercise first" approach is that after exercising, I find that I don't even want the donut.

I'm guessing this approach is something like swapping dopamine triggers. You get a good rush from exercising such that you don't need a dopamine release from eating a donut.

However, I still believe your and RyanMcGreal's anecdotes are the minority. Most obese people do not find exercise to be pleasurable. Getting sweaty is "work". For these people, if they exercise, they'll end up getting hungrier which triggers more eating and the end result is a weight change that nets to zero. In contrast to your scenario, instead of skipping the donut after exercise, they feel that they can "reward" themselves with a donut because they had the discipline to exercise!

For most people, switching out bad food for good food such that they are satisfied without starving is a far easier and more realistic lifestyle adjustment. To be clear, I'm not suggesting people eat "less", but that they eat "differently". Drink a kale smoothie instead of a glass of sugar-laden orange juice, etc.

Telling obese people that exercise will strengthen their heart is more truthful than selling it as a key to weight loss.

Re: It’s gotten harder to lose weight and not for the reasons you think

#64

Post by ZoFreX » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:35 PM UTC

rasz_pl wrote: post #2

same story yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10309249 study relies on SELF REPORTING, need I say more?

What would we prefer, a study that relies on self-reporting but is a study nonetheless, or a bunch of theories based on entirely on anecdotes with a sample size of 1?

I get this study isn't perfect but it seems silly that so many commenters here are disregarding it entirely yet are perfectly happy to listen to completely untested theories from people with no expertise whatsoever in the field.

Re: It’s gotten harder to lose weight and not for the reasons you think

#65

Post by RyanMcGreal » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:37 PM UTC

dwc wrote: post #25

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> exercise is not they key to weight loss, proper eating is. Anecdote here, but I've found that for me the key to weight loss has been exercise-first. I decided that I'd never be very good at reducing my dietary input (I really enjoy food) so I focused instead on increasing my energy output by incorporating progressively more physical activity into my lifestyle. Over the past few years I have steadily and gradually r…

Like so many things, there is no single correct answer. For myself, if I focus on diet and not worry about exercise I find that I have to eat very little if I want to lose more than a few pounds. So little that I'm miserable all the time. Forever. On the flip side, if I exercise[1] I not only burn calories but increase muscle mass which burns more calories. Other people seem to do well with a focus on diet and not so…

I'm not suggesting diet doesn't matter; of course it does. But for me, every attempt to eat less failed. When I decided to focus on exercise instead, a subsequent effect was that the pattern of my approach to food started to change in positive ways.

Re: It’s gotten harder to lose weight and not for the reasons you think

#66

Post by sgift » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:40 PM UTC

ZoFreX wrote: post #61

Kurtz79 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite explanation I found on the issue is on "The Hacker's Diet" (free ebook). https://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/e4/ The author's theory is that the issue is not on of metabolism, but that people overeating do not have a good "I'm full" mechanism. Most people like you that "can eat all they want and not gain weight" in reality... don't. They balance out their intake naturally, if not in the scope of a meal, ove…

The author's theory? Why do I care what the creator of Autodesk's theory on weight loss and diet is? Why is Hacker News so fast to pooh-pooh the study in the linked article and declare it as fake science, but we're happy to accept a completely unproven and untested theory from someone with no expertise in the field? Because it's called "The Hacker's Diet"? You wouldn't give a nutritionist's opinion on Javascript fram…

One supports the opinion of the commenters, the other doesn't, so "obviously" the one which supports their opinion is good and the other one is just fake science.

Re: It’s gotten harder to lose weight and not for the reasons you think

#67

Post by ZoFreX » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:40 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #5

The bias isn't against obese people, it is against morbidly obese people who don't want to accept it. There is a whole collection of groups that sprouted up to fight the "discrimination" against fat people, HAES (Health At Every Size) is the most know, but fat acceptance gets airtime simply because it is so much easier to get a message out. Obesity is an issue, we simply have way too much opportunity to indulge and l…

It's interesting that the highest comment isn't really discussing the article but segues from a little aside at the end of it to debunk "Health At Every Size" - a notion that is not mentioned at all in the article!

The bias against obese people that the article refers to is very, very real: It's all of the assumptions people make about obese people, e.g. it's all their fault, they are lazy, they are to blame, and so on.

The information raised in this article is one way amongst many in which obesity is not as simple as that. In this case it rather reminds me of the meme where the older generation judges my generation as lazy because we rent instead of owning houses: as well as individual responsibility, it has gotten harder in real terms to earn enough to own a house.

Likewise, someone eating the same things and exercising the same amount now, compared to 30 years ago, would be fatter. That's extremely interesting, and needs to be factored in to any efforts to fight the obesity crisis.

Re: It’s gotten harder to lose weight and not for the reasons you think

#68

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:50 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #31

Kurtz79 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite explanation I found on the issue is on "The Hacker's Diet" (free ebook). https://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/e4/ The author's theory is that the issue is not on of metabolism, but that people overeating do not have a good "I'm full" mechanism. Most people like you that "can eat all they want and not gain weight" in reality... don't. They balance out their intake naturally, if not in the scope of a meal, ove…

> people overeating do not have a good "I'm full" mechanism And there are people like me who rarely feel hungry. I eat because the clock tells me to.

[deleted]

Re: It’s gotten harder to lose weight and not for the reasons you think

#69

Post by shenanigoat » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:52 PM UTC

cousin_it wrote: post #6

aabajian wrote: post #4

"Weight management is actually much more complex than just ‘energy in’ versus ‘energy out." No, it's not. Maybe it's more difficult to measure calories (that salad ranch dressing has more calories than that hamburger), but people should be encouraged to balance their calorie intake everyday. For what it's worth, here's why Americans are obese: 50 extra calories / day x 365 days / year x 1 lb / 3,500 calories = 5 lbs…

It's not so simple. People are different. Some people won't need your plan because they stay at low weight no matter what they eat. Others won't be able to follow your plan because it would require superhuman willpower. I'm an example of the first category. I'm 6'2'' and 160 lbs, and have been like this for years. At age 27 I spent a whole year working from home, eating at McDonalds 1-2 times every day, going to slee…

Very true. I'm the same height as you and weigh 230. I eat like a bird (not exactly but likely less than 2000 calories per day) and do not lose any weight. The only time I've managed to lose weight was on a raw vegetable juice diet.

Re: It’s gotten harder to lose weight and not for the reasons you think

#70

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:56 PM UTC

shenanigoat wrote: post #69

cousin_it wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not so simple. People are different. Some people won't need your plan because they stay at low weight no matter what they eat. Others won't be able to follow your plan because it would require superhuman willpower. I'm an example of the first category. I'm 6'2'' and 160 lbs, and have been like this for years. At age 27 I spent a whole year working from home, eating at McDonalds 1-2 times every day, going to slee…

Very true. I'm the same height as you and weigh 230. I eat like a bird (not exactly but likely less than 2000 calories per day) and do not lose any weight. The only time I've managed to lose weight was on a raw vegetable juice diet.

[deleted]