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Microsoft Is Downloading 6GB of Windows 10 Updates Without User’s Consent

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Re: Microsoft Is Downloading 6GB of Windows 10 Updates Without User’s Consent

#61

Post by jfim »

satanrepents wrote: post #33
astrodust wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OS X keeps harassing me to update to the latest version because I have automatic updates on and haven't turned the notifications off, but it hasn't gone and downloaded the new OS pre-emptively without my consent. Asking first wouldn't hurt, you know!

Then it's not really "automatic updates". If it was truly automatic, it would download and even install without asking because you already said yes.

Instead, you just get a pop up, daily, to upgrade to Yosemite. There's no way to remove it, hiding the update in the app store does nothing and there's no way, even after months of clicking "Close" to have it figure out that "No, I don't want to upgrade to it."

Is that a better design? Especially considering Apple routinely automatically downloads updates that are also in the gigabyte range.

Re: Microsoft Is Downloading 6GB of Windows 10 Updates Without User’s Consent

#62

Post by brandon272 »

pdkl95 wrote: post #27
rubidium wrote: post #14

Headline is misleading. They do have consent. This is one reason I don't allow automatic updates. MS statement: "For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade."

First, default settings are never "consent". Second, even if they did consent to automatic updates, that obviously applies to updating the current product they purchased. Upgrading to a different model is obviously not what people expect. Most people expect that their car will receive necessary updates (recall notices), which obviously doesn't include exchanging the car for next years model without some sort of addit…

> First, default settings are never "consent".

First, I'm confused about how this is considered a default setting. Anytime I've installed a version of Windows that has automatic updates it asks me during the install what my update preferences are. Just because a select menu has something as the default doesn't mean that I'm not consenting when I review that select menu and hit "Next" in the installer.

Windows 8: http://www.eightforums.com/attachments/tutorials/7868d134523...

Windows 7: http://cdn1.alphr.com/sites/alphr/files/styles/insert_main_i...

Windows XP: http://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers/xp_automatic_updat...

Secondly, this is a commercial product that I am choosing to install. By necessity it has a lot of configuration options that are set to various different values. Is it not implied consent that when I install an operating system that I am agreeing/consenting to all of the different default settings?

Re: Microsoft Is Downloading 6GB of Windows 10 Updates Without User’s Consent

#63

Post by FilterSweep »

I'm extremely disappointed that I had "turned off" my development work PCs automatic updates, however after a few weeks I found the telemetry update (KB3068708) for Windows 7 installed fully without my consent.

I had "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them," selected in Windows Update for this category of update. I did not choose to install this, and I was made aware from a HN thread made a few weeks ago.

The update was visible, at that time, but not installed. Now, a few weeks later, the update is on my computer. I believe the update was actually installed during an unrelated security update which I had allowed.

I'm wondering if I'll have to use external scripts of my own or third party to remove the telemetry bug on my computer.

Re: Microsoft Is Downloading 6GB of Windows 10 Updates Without User’s Consent

#64

Post by function_seven »

brandon272 wrote: post #62
pdkl95 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, default settings are never "consent". Second, even if they did consent to automatic updates, that obviously applies to updating the current product they purchased. Upgrading to a different model is obviously not what people expect. Most people expect that their car will receive necessary updates (recall notices), which obviously doesn't include exchanging the car for next years model without some sort of addit…

> First, default settings are never "consent". First, I'm confused about how this is considered a default setting. Anytime I've installed a version of Windows that has automatic updates it asks me during the install what my update preferences are. Just because a select menu has something as the default doesn't mean that I'm not consenting when I review that select menu and hit "Next" in the installer. Windows 8: http…

Your Win7 screenshot shows just a nice green shield next to the preselected default setting, and a scary red "X" next to the one that would prevent Win10 from being downloaded. The 3rd option also says that you will be vulnerable if you select it.

Finally, nothing on those screens says anything about automatically downloading a different OS. There's zero consent to that.

Re: Microsoft Is Downloading 6GB of Windows 10 Updates Without User’s Consent

#65

Post by kalleboo »

crishoj wrote: post #57
wyldfire wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS downloads updates in advance of you agreeing to executing them. Maybe OS X does the same? I suppose iOS, Windows, and others all have an opt-out for this feature.

Since iOS 7 or so, iOS updates have been incremental, sized in megabytes, not multi-gigabyte blobs.

iOS 8 was a 1 GB update (or even bigger for some devices)

Re: Microsoft Is Downloading 6GB of Windows 10 Updates Without User’s Consent

#66

Post by function_seven »

Karunamon wrote: post #55
detaro wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 10 is not a "a patch"

Windows Update downloads more than "patches". It has been used in the past to distribute standalone tools and service packs.

It has never wholesale upgraded the OS to a new major version. Nobody expects it to.

Re: Microsoft Is Downloading 6GB of Windows 10 Updates Without User’s Consent

#68

Post by johnward »

Retra wrote: post #56
melling wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy that Microsoft gets so much heat for trying everything it can to get people to its latest OS. By this time next week, a couple hundred million people will be running iOS 9. Within six months they should have 85-90% of their users on it. This makes it better for Apple, developers, and the users. Windows needs a little more of an "onward" mentality.

Microsoft is getting heat for trying everything they can because they're supposed to be "trying everything they should ," instead of violating their user's expectations. It's great the MS wants everyone on their latest OS. But "latest" doesn't mean "best." Taking away user choice subverts the economic principles that encourage improvement -- that "best" is decided by the consumer, not the producer. It would be ideal…

Can't users opt out by disabling automatic updates? Microsoft is basically doing what every other modern software company does but taking heat for it.

Re: Microsoft Is Downloading 6GB of Windows 10 Updates Without User’s Consent

#69

Post by tdicola »

melling wrote: post #42
johnward wrote: post #36

I don't get the "without consent" part. If you have automatic updates on you consent to them automatically downloading things.

It's crazy that Microsoft gets so much heat for trying everything it can to get people to its latest OS. By this time next week, a couple hundred million people will be running iOS 9. Within six months they should have 85-90% of their users on it. This makes it better for Apple, developers, and the users. Windows needs a little more of an "onward" mentality.

After the disaster of Windows 8 and 8.1 for the desktop can you blame people for being a little bit gunshy about upgrading?

Re: Microsoft Is Downloading 6GB of Windows 10 Updates Without User’s Consent

#70

Post by wang_li »

johnward wrote: post #68
Retra wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is getting heat for trying everything they can because they're supposed to be "trying everything they should ," instead of violating their user's expectations. It's great the MS wants everyone on their latest OS. But "latest" doesn't mean "best." Taking away user choice subverts the economic principles that encourage improvement -- that "best" is decided by the consumer, not the producer. It would be ideal…

Can't users opt out by disabling automatic updates? Microsoft is basically doing what every other modern software company does but taking heat for it.

Arguably all software vendors who sell a product should be prepared to do two things:

1. continue fixing bugs in their prior products. 2. create new features in new products.

People who buy something, e.g. an original iPad, no longer get OS updates even though the item was advertised as being safe to use to access content on the internet. This is provably false and while EULA shenanigans provide a fig leaf of propriety, the reality is what was sold was defective and if it's possible to fix it they should.

Opting out of updates means that you don't get fixes. The argument that you agree to these kinds of changes in fundamental behavior because you are receiving new features is B.S. The company sold me a defective product and certain documented behaviors. I'm ok with those behaviors but I want the product to work for the features advertised. I should have to tolerate excessive data collection simply to get a functional product.

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