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Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

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Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#61

Post by CardenB »

WaxProlix wrote: post #32
xhrpost wrote: post #27

What are people's thoughts/experiences with burnout happening without overtime? Over the past few years I've grown more and more bored at work. Even switching jobs from different ends of the spectrum didn't fix this. I can get myself into flow but it seems to take more and more will power as time goes on. Different tech challenges help, but it's nothing like my halcyon days of straight out of college. Of coming into…

You might be depressed. Consider seeing a therapist, even just once or twice?

Yes, I wish people would stop consulting various buzzwords and tech ideals and, instead, suggest OP see a therapist. This sounds like depression to me.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#62

Post by woohoo7676 »

joslin01 wrote: post #33
woohoo7676 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any tips for combating burnout that worked well for you? I'm starting to feel the signs of burnout (which probably means I'm actually in deeper than I think), and I'd like to try to head this off before it gets worse. I know setting hard boundaries for work/non work and taking chunks of time for yourself is a good start, but would love to hear if you had any more advice? Thanks!

While this might not be the right thing to say, I feel compelled to say it nevertheless: nothing can hurt you unless you give it power to do so. When I was in the heat of it and naturally did not want to work, I eventually reached a place of working zen -- I will try to do what I can, and forget about my imagined needs of this or that. I simply stared at the screen if I didn't know the buttons to press. This is the e…

Thanks, I appreciate the perspective! I definitely agree with the real killer being thinking about working while not working. The concept is simple like you said, but actually sticking to it...quite hard. Also, keeping one day a week for yourself seems like a good place to start as well.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#63

Post by copsarebastards »

WaxProlix wrote: post #32
xhrpost wrote: post #27

What are people's thoughts/experiences with burnout happening without overtime? Over the past few years I've grown more and more bored at work. Even switching jobs from different ends of the spectrum didn't fix this. I can get myself into flow but it seems to take more and more will power as time goes on. Different tech challenges help, but it's nothing like my halcyon days of straight out of college. Of coming into…

You might be depressed. Consider seeing a therapist, even just once or twice?

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." --William Gibson

Another thing to consider is that the problem might not be you, it might be that the situation sucks.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#64

Post by anhedonisticguy »

CardenB wrote: post #61
WaxProlix wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be depressed. Consider seeing a therapist, even just once or twice?

Yes, I wish people would stop consulting various buzzwords and tech ideals and, instead, suggest OP see a therapist. This sounds like depression to me.

I would caution against calling it depression, which is a set of symptoms classified as a disease and really can only be evaluated by a professional.

However, I recently went through a period of anhedonia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia), which may be what OP is experiencing.

Things that I found that worked: exercise for pleasure (riding my bike!). Connecting with people (one-on-one -- i'd always been part of a big group before). Learning new things, new challenges. Yoga.

A book that helped me a lot was Frankl's "A man's search for meaning". I realized that I had a bit of fight club nihilism in me because I never chose my purpose in life, and so was just sitting on the metaphorical treadmill of existentialistic wallowing.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#65

Post by thothamon »

ryandrake wrote: post #36
danielweber wrote: post #25

I have never said to myself "I wish I had stuck around that company longer." I have often said "I should have left much sooner." I'm sure there are some examples of someone leaving when lightning was about to strike and make all the insiders rich. Those instances are even more rare than start-up successes making employees rich.

I left a company to go back to school (took on massive loans). A few months later, the company closed up and people got extremely generous severances. Would have probably covered half my tuition costs. I definitely wish I had stuck around THAT company longer!

Which illustrates the original point: that scenario -- generous severances when the company is going out of business -- is incredibly rare. A much more likely scenario is your options become worthless and you're laid off. If you can leave a bad environment, I recommend leaving ASAP instead of letting the golden handcuffs keep you -- unless the golden handcuffs promise a huge return, and there's little or no doubt about getting that return.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#66

Post by eastbayjake »

johngalt wrote: post #52

Passion causes burnout. Have you ever noticed that the people who just punch a clock and go home never experience burn out? Even if they end up working overtime? It's always the people who identify with their work that get burned.

YES. And to an extent, just punching the clock is a defense mechanism in work environments where low autonomy + high demands are creating an environment for burnout. But I've seen bright-eyed 23-year-old engineers suffer vicious burnout by trying to tackle the low autonomy part ("Hey boss, what if we did X? Hey boss, I put together this slidedeck for this feature that would be so cool! Hey boss, check out this mockup I did of a site redesign!") and then after hitting a brick wall enough times they become embittered and disconnected.

I think it's because equity creates a belief in young workers that the company is "theirs" -- but after you've realized that startups are like any other job where you trade time for money while implementing the Highest Paid Person's Opinion, you lose that passion quickly.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#67

Post by joesmo »

Some psychologists consider burnout to be depression, not just depression-like. In my own experience, I'd have to agree. Luckily it's generally brought on by stress and most people recover within weeks or months if they are able to rest or be removed from the cause.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#68

Post by bengalister »

xacaxulu wrote: post #49

I remember trying to describe burnout to my step-mom who is French. I kept trying to figure out how to say it in French and she joked that they don't have much of a phrase for it; the just say "le burnout" which I find rather telling. It seems like such an american problem that so many articles like these have to be written.

It is true that we (French) say "le burnout" but it does not mean we are not affected too, contrary to popular belief ;-) A few years ago, it seems that workers of ex-publicly held companies (France Telecom for instance) were the most affected with a few suicide cases that made the news. Recent studies said 2 workers out of 10 felt affected. IMHO, the white collars of big companies feel affected because they have to do more than before to stay in the international race in less time since they usually have 6-10 weeks of holidays per/year (no sick days). Having so many holidays is really challenging for an organization, especially in the summer, period of the year when people are off for 2-4 weeks. It means also long work days for workers. Personally i'd prefer to have less holidays and come back home earlier.

Having said that, on a yearly basis, white collars work much less than their American counterparts on average.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#69

Post by solveforall »

abledon wrote: post #34
woohoo7676 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any tips for combating burnout that worked well for you? I'm starting to feel the signs of burnout (which probably means I'm actually in deeper than I think), and I'd like to try to head this off before it gets worse. I know setting hard boundaries for work/non work and taking chunks of time for yourself is a good start, but would love to hear if you had any more advice? Thanks!

Qigong worked wonders for me, 30 mins a day 7 days a week. Learn to treat it as a ritual so you won't fall out of the habit easily. p.s. there are a lot of charlatans, so you have to find an actually talented teacher

I second this, although I don't have the discipline to do it everyday. When I feel really crappy, I do it and always feel much better for a whole day afterwards. It's also an exercise that is stress-free, easy, and can be done everywhere. I'm not sure about the teacher part though -- I'm not into the mystical mumbo-jumbo (even though I'm Chinese). Something about the movements is just good for relieving stress and I'm not sure they need to be done in exactly the right way -- sort of like how sham acupuncture helps people.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#70

Post by studentrob »

johngalt wrote: post #52

Passion causes burnout. Have you ever noticed that the people who just punch a clock and go home never experience burn out? Even if they end up working overtime? It's always the people who identify with their work that get burned.

I don't see anything wrong with seeking a job with which I can identify.

The problem comes when I stick it out for too long at a place that does not share my core values. In my experience it is a losing battle. Trying to match what I believe in with a whole company is really tough. I feel burnout is to be expected at times during my career while I figure things out. A little break, some consideration, and new goals help me move forward and find work I can enjoy.

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