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Will there be a Distributed HTTP?

mnot.net

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Re: Will there be a Distributed HTTP?

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of a non-sequiter, but I'll bite. Replicating toolboxes. Or self-replicating benchtop factories. Microcontrollers could be produced using dip-pen nanolithigraohy, or a few other techniques. Of course we need decent open source atomic force microscopes first. There will always be components that can't be produced on that kind of scale. In reprap parlance we call the "vitamins". An apt metaphor.

The production of integrated circuits is very much dictated by economies of scale. The capital require is simply too large to justify the creation of a production line for a small run. If you crack that particular nut then you're going to be the next Bill Gates.

The capital required to currently produce top-of-the-line ICs is too large. But we're getting closer - people are building their own CPUs. E.g. there was the article of someone breadboarding a CPU in the 10's of MHz range recently. And there are plenty of FPGA projects, which while still depending on ICs manufactured by a central manufacturer substantially reduces their role.

Re: Will there be a Distributed HTTP?

#62
post #29
post #24

How is this distributed model going to deal with the fact that a lot of (all of?) the websites we visit have dynamic content? I feel like I'd be much better off, privacy-wise, if I could get a browser that had a user manageable list of locations to pre-cache with some kind of daily/weekly offline cache refresh. So when I go to a web page that fetches jquery from google's hosted libraries service, it instead pulls it…

How is this distributed model going to deal with the fact that a lot of (all of?) the websites we visit have dynamic content? Web content is rarely very dynamic. With the exception of social networks and news sites, most websites would be largely indistinguishable from what they look like now if they were serving the same page as yesterday or a week ago. Technologically we could trade the 'rendered on request' model…

I am just looking at the many tabs I have open right now.

I would say it is a 50 / 50 % mix. Gmail, Stack overflow, HN are all dynamic. There are a few blogs posts, and tutorials, which are probably mainly static, but get updated on n a regular basis. Newspaper sites, some I am signed into, some I am not.

Re: Will there be a Distributed HTTP?

#63
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The production of integrated circuits is very much dictated by economies of scale. The capital require is simply too large to justify the creation of a production line for a small run. If you crack that particular nut then you're going to be the next Bill Gates.

The capital required to currently produce top-of-the-line ICs is too large. But we're getting closer - people are building their own CPUs. E.g. there was the article of someone breadboarding a CPU in the 10's of MHz range recently. And there are plenty of FPGA projects, which while still depending on ICs manufactured by a central manufacturer substantially reduces their role.

How exactly do FPGAs do antything at all to reduce the role of central manufacturing?

Re: Will there be a Distributed HTTP?

#64
post #63
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The capital required to currently produce top-of-the-line ICs is too large. But we're getting closer - people are building their own CPUs. E.g. there was the article of someone breadboarding a CPU in the 10's of MHz range recently. And there are plenty of FPGA projects, which while still depending on ICs manufactured by a central manufacturer substantially reduces their role.

How exactly do FPGAs do antything at all to reduce the role of central manufacturing?

The same way computers do: you can reprogram them instead of buying a new thingamajig.

Re: Will there be a Distributed HTTP?

#65
post #6

This is one of the most crucial things we need to make free software viable again. In 2006, I wrote that the only solution to the problem of proprietary services was to "build these services as decentralized free-software peer-to-peer applications, pieces of which run on the computers of each user": https://www.mail-archive.com/kragen-tol@canonical.org/msg001... And, in particular, I wrote a few months later that rep…

A variant form of "Conquest's second law of politics" almost certainly applies to all innovation in this space: Any protocol that doesn't explicitly exclude Google sooner or later becomes Google.

It may be impossible to win this game.

Re: Will there be a Distributed HTTP?

#66
post #57
post #5

This is actually a pretty cool idea (although perhaps badly explained, given the other comments here). Here's how it could work: IPFS ("In some ways, IPFS is similar to the Web, but IPFS could be seen as a single BitTorrent swarm, exchanging objects within one Git repository") is a globally distributed hash-addressed versioned filesystem. (see: http://ipfs.io/ ) They have a mirror of their homepage hosted on IPFS, he…

Isn't that more or less how Freenet works?

Yep. Freenet is inefficient, though, because it has a bunch of indirection in order to obscure the originator of the inserted documents. You could remove that indirection if you just cared about the content, not about anonymity.

Re: Will there be a Distributed HTTP?

#67
Do you remember the download mesh? http://rfc-gnutella.sourceforge.net/developer/tmp/download-m...

3 additional HTTP headers for fully distributed downloading.

The server provides an URN and some IPs from participating downloaders and the clients can (but do not have to) swarm that from other clients. Tiger tree hashing ensures that every chunk can be verified, the X-Alt header allows the clients to exchange IPs among themselves (the server does not need to know all) and an X-Nalt header gives distributed disruption avoidance.

Back then I wrote a simple server which provides that: https://bitbucket.org/ArneBab/gnutella_tracker/src/43dc24ddd...

This doesn’t give additional privacy (aside from the effect that the server owner does not need to know whether you just started the download or finished it), but the users can decide themselves where they download from. And the download mesh has proven itself with 50 million users.

Re: Will there be a Distributed HTTP?

#68

Yes, I've already implemented it: Distributed HTTP: Maalstroom on MORPHiS :) GPLv2 unlike Bittorrent Inc.'s Mælström https://morph.is It is very fast because it is not anonymous first. Although it is 100% designed with being non-leaking over Tor. It already works over proxychains great. I will add SOCKS5 support soon. Also, don't forget the distributed spam resistant automatically encrypted and transparently authenti…

how does it avoid timing attacks when running over Tor?

Re: Will there be a Distributed HTTP?

#69
post #47

One of the things I wish browsers supported would be signed content... IE your CDN/distributed content doesn't need to be on HTTPS, just have a header with a payload signature against the HTTPS cert that the application host uses... I don't know why such a beast was never introduced into the browsers. I also feel that it would be nice to see more p2p protocols especially regarding live chat, and other systems. I thin…

That's actually been discussed quite a lot. However, it shares the "request privacy problem" that I talked about in the blog entry; the mere fact that you're requesting information -- even if it's public -- is sometimes sensitive information. Keep in mind that the determination of its sensitivity is often highly contextual; e.g., something that's not a problem in your country may be illegal elsewhere, or someone in a…

So this should be a user choice: Do I run my request through my download public accellerator or do I only get it from the server.

That would be similar to always providing a torrent for every single file — just without needing a torrent server, because the clients can handle that themselves.

Re: Will there be a Distributed HTTP?

#70
post #66
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that more or less how Freenet works?

Yep. Freenet is inefficient, though, because it has a bunch of indirection in order to obscure the originator of the inserted documents. You could remove that indirection if you just cared about the content, not about anonymity.

If I don’t need anynomity, I would choose the Download mesh from Gnutella.

If I do need anonymity, Freenet is a very good choice.

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