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The Grid: Certainly Misguided, Probably a Scam

benhorrix.com

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Re: The Grid: Certainly Misguided, Probably a Scam

#61

Post by plorkyeran »

sago wrote: post #15
reustle wrote: post #2

Seeing so many ads for them was an immediate red flag for me. Clearly they were trying to milk more sign ups out of their promise before people started to realize it was a joke.

I don't think it is a joke. It is classic AI marketing. From what I can tell their 'AI' chooses colors, and fonts and does some basic layout. All three bits can be done very simply. So you choose a template, it stores a few basic qualities, then uses those qualities later to choose how to parameterise its tools for adding new content to your site. It's not strong AI, you might want to claim it isn't AI at all. But ev…

> So you choose a template

They explicitly say that it doesn't use templates in the video. If you assume that part's bullshit then everything else is plausible, but if one of the first things they say about the produce is a lie...

Re: The Grid: Certainly Misguided, Probably a Scam

#62

Post by p8952 »

sago wrote: post #15
reustle wrote: post #2

Seeing so many ads for them was an immediate red flag for me. Clearly they were trying to milk more sign ups out of their promise before people started to realize it was a joke.

I don't think it is a joke. It is classic AI marketing. From what I can tell their 'AI' chooses colors, and fonts and does some basic layout. All three bits can be done very simply. So you choose a template, it stores a few basic qualities, then uses those qualities later to choose how to parameterise its tools for adding new content to your site. It's not strong AI, you might want to claim it isn't AI at all. But ev…

> So you choose a template

"It's called The Grid. No templates, no coding."

Re: The Grid: Certainly Misguided, Probably a Scam

#63

Post by kbutler »

tariqali34 wrote: post #45
apalmer wrote: post #24

There seems to be some cognitive dissonance going on here. Almost all the posts here are saying, to paraphrase: 'It looks like the Grid team are using templates and some algorithms to to create websites while explicitly stating they are not using templates and using vague allusions to revolutionary AI for marketing purposes to attract investors and/or kickstarter funders. It is not a scam' Misleading potential invest…

I think there is a distinction between misleading marketing and scamming. If you promise "revolutionary AI" and only give the customer templates and algorithms, well, at least the customer have a program that can make websites. That's useful. A scam, on the other hand, would not deliver anything at all...period. That is because, no matter how easy it is to produce the templates and algorithms, it's just cheaper to ta…

I sell you an amazing AI that will write novels, given some natural language input. I deliver you a word processor and templates.

Scam?

Re: The Grid: Certainly Misguided, Probably a Scam

#64

Post by titfn »

tariqali34 wrote: post #45
apalmer wrote: post #24

There seems to be some cognitive dissonance going on here. Almost all the posts here are saying, to paraphrase: 'It looks like the Grid team are using templates and some algorithms to to create websites while explicitly stating they are not using templates and using vague allusions to revolutionary AI for marketing purposes to attract investors and/or kickstarter funders. It is not a scam' Misleading potential invest…

I think there is a distinction between misleading marketing and scamming. If you promise "revolutionary AI" and only give the customer templates and algorithms, well, at least the customer have a program that can make websites. That's useful. A scam, on the other hand, would not deliver anything at all...period. That is because, no matter how easy it is to produce the templates and algorithms, it's just cheaper to ta…

Send me $10 and I promise that I'll send you back $20 shortly... I might change my mind and only send you back $5 but it's definitely not a scam because I sent something back

Re: The Grid: Certainly Misguided, Probably a Scam

#65

Post by xanthor »

vonklaus wrote: post #59
xanthor wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious to hear how NoFlo imparts any amount of credibility to the team.

It was a kickstarter proj they delivered on. Don't know anything about them, and only little anout this project. However, blindly, I would def. rather back someone who has delivered a project over one who hasn't.

You should check it out and decide for yourself. I have no context to comment on the team's actual technical competence, but it has become clear to me that their M.O. is talking big and delivering fluff.

Re: The Grid: Certainly Misguided, Probably a Scam

#66

Post by _pius »

apalmer wrote: post #24

There seems to be some cognitive dissonance going on here. Almost all the posts here are saying, to paraphrase: 'It looks like the Grid team are using templates and some algorithms to to create websites while explicitly stating they are not using templates and using vague allusions to revolutionary AI for marketing purposes to attract investors and/or kickstarter funders. It is not a scam' Misleading potential invest…

Come on. I don't know anything about the Grid team, but this line of criticism is pretty specious, little more than Tesler's Theorem writ large: "AI is whatever hasn't been done yet." Once AI is successfully applied to a problem, it's dismissed as not "real intelligence."

The big critique is that you were promised AI but all you're getting are "templates and some algorithms." I mean, what do you think AI is? Magic? I hate to break it to folks, but AI is just "some algorithms" applied to a problem domain.

Re: The Grid: Certainly Misguided, Probably a Scam

#68

Post by hitekker »

dave_chenell wrote: post #47

This post makes me sad. I almost worked with The Grid about a year ago, from my experience everyone there is nothing but kind and talented. From what I saw, the team really wants to build a great product and is extremely passionate about what they do. Sure they have flashy marketing and throw the word AI around a lot. Clearly its working better than “Hey we use automated A/B testing, analytics, fluid auto-changing la…

This post reminds me of those who had invested considerable sums into Mt.Gox prior to their declaration of insolvency.

Re: The Grid: Certainly Misguided, Probably a Scam

#69

Post by aplummer »

dave_chenell wrote: post #47

This post makes me sad. I almost worked with The Grid about a year ago, from my experience everyone there is nothing but kind and talented. From what I saw, the team really wants to build a great product and is extremely passionate about what they do. Sure they have flashy marketing and throw the word AI around a lot. Clearly its working better than “Hey we use automated A/B testing, analytics, fluid auto-changing la…

There is a line between (legal) puffery and the objective claim that they have built "AI that allows websites to design themselves."

Is it AI that allows "websites to design themselves", obviously not, even saying "a /unique/ website based on your content" (given the likelihood for small scale repetition) is a massive stretch.

Is that still just puffery or can people argue over the definition of AI? Obviously you and OP disagree but you can see his point.

Re: The Grid: Certainly Misguided, Probably a Scam

#70

Post by tomadi »

Animats wrote: post #53
Animats wrote: post #31

This seems like a good idea, and certainly do-able. Whether the people doing it can bring it off is a separate issue. It looks like they like grid layouts. Everything is a rectangle. (On their site, a flat-shaded rectangle, like Windows 8+.) That simplifies things. You have some text and some pictures, and probably some action blocks (buttons, forms, zooms, etc.), and need a layout. View this as an optimization probl…

Thinking about it, I like the idea of using automated A/B testing to automatically drive layout optimization. That would be fascinating to watch. Provide the system with a supply of images and copy, maybe 5x as much content as the site shows, and let it optimize for maximum clicks. Someone could probably get VC funding for that.

You just described exactly how the Amazon.com homepage works. I think they even published a paper about it.
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