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The decline of the MBA will cut off the supply of bullshit

economist.com

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Re: The decline of the MBA will cut off the supply of bullshit

#61

Post by markpercival »

brianlash wrote: post #52
markpercival wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, what's silly is that people still quote Peter Drucker with a straight face. Ever been frustrated by the many layers of middle management in corporate America today, or laughed at a dilbert strip? Blame Peter Drucker. Just look at the results of all this "management as a science" bullshit - only one fifth of employees feel engaged with their jobs today, as was recently pointed out by the WSJ ( http://blogs.wsj.com…

I fail to see the connection you draw between Drucker's teaching (eg What gets measured gets managed) and the poor management you see in corporations today. Have you ever read any of his articles/books? Can you point to anything particularly offensive? Anyway Drucker wasn't a "management as a science" guy. He was an economist, or a microeconomist if you're nitpicking.

He certainly fits the mold of a microeconomist, but he revolutionized the study of management in the US. I don't think it's at all disingenuous to say that he drove management science to what it is today.

And to sum up his teachings as "What gets measured gets managed" is fairly trite when he wrote 30+ books on the subject of organizations and management.

So yes, I think "management as a science" guy is totally appropriate. Or as he is described so often on book covers - "Managment Guru"

My point is, we have MBA's coming out of programs which rely a great deal on the teaching of Peter Drucker, and companies are starting to wake up to the realization that Drucker's "Knowledge worker"/MBA doesn't possess the generalizable skills that he argued for.

Drucker argued for large corporations and layering, giving rise to the current bought of middle management that make up the majority of cruft in a today's organization.

And yes, I was required to read Drucker my my management classes.

Re: The decline of the MBA will cut off the supply of bullshit

#63

Post by dejb »

dejb wrote: post #32
sethg wrote: post #9

[I]f fewer bright, ambitious people go into business, economies may suffer. Instead the talent will go increasingly into the public sector, the law, medicine—which are already bursting with bright people as it is. This must be some new definition of “suffer” that I was not previously aware of.

Wow. So you don't think that the abilities and attitude of business people matter to the economy, even startups? I hope that the potential and actual startups/businesses on this site don't have this attitude. If this was the prevailing attitude then to say the economy would 'suffer' would be an understatement. Whether an MBA improves or signifies ability is another matter entirely.

So has this place officially turned from being interested internet business into a bunch of whining complainers about 'the system' like reddit? Sad

Re: The decline of the MBA will cut off the supply of bullshit

#64

Post by boredguy8 »

markpercival wrote: post #46
InclinedPlane wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is silly. Both aspects are important. Someone who thinks money isn't real may make huge basic business blunders like not paying the right taxes, not managing their debt/income correctly, or just making horribly inefficient business choices (I've seen this a lot). The result may be a company that goes out of business even though it's perfectly viable if run correctly. Or a company that dies because it inadvertent…

No, what's silly is that people still quote Peter Drucker with a straight face. Ever been frustrated by the many layers of middle management in corporate America today, or laughed at a dilbert strip? Blame Peter Drucker. Just look at the results of all this "management as a science" bullshit - only one fifth of employees feel engaged with their jobs today, as was recently pointed out by the WSJ ( http://blogs.wsj.com…

And absent a control that article is still meaningless. Perhaps 1/100th of employees would feel engaged with their jobs today absent Drucker.

Additionally, the line "success depends on a company’s ability to unleash the initiative, imagination and passion of employees at all levels" made my head spin. I really don't wan the unleashed initiative of a lot of people--they're just not that bright, not that creative, and left to their own devices they'd be potentially counter-productive.

Re: The decline of the MBA will cut off the supply of bullshit

#67

Post by scott_s »

dejb wrote: post #63
dejb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. So you don't think that the abilities and attitude of business people matter to the economy, even startups? I hope that the potential and actual startups/businesses on this site don't have this attitude. If this was the prevailing attitude then to say the economy would 'suffer' would be an understatement. Whether an MBA improves or signifies ability is another matter entirely.

So has this place officially turned from being interested internet business into a bunch of whining complainers about 'the system' like reddit? Sad

No, I think the parent's point was that if bright people still go into fields that matter, then the economy won't "suffer."

Also, the parent joined HN 12 days after you.

Re: The decline of the MBA will cut off the supply of bullshit

#69

Post by jackfoxy »

tree5 wrote: post #58
authentic wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the correct singular is alumnus few things bother me more than blatantly incorrect usage of Latin next to supposedly prestigious institutions

Fewer things bother me more than pseudo-intellectual jackasses bothered by grammar.

Fewer things bother me more than flippant replies to pseudo-intelectual jackasses. I'm just not bothered by very much.

Re: The decline of the MBA will cut off the supply of bullshit

#70

Post by dejb »

scott_s wrote: post #67
dejb wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So has this place officially turned from being interested internet business into a bunch of whining complainers about 'the system' like reddit? Sad

No, I think the parent's point was that if bright people still go into fields that matter, then the economy won't "suffer." Also, the parent joined HN 12 days after you.

> No, I think the parent's point was that if bright people still go into fields that matter, then the economy won't "suffer."

So by implication business isn't a field that particularly matters. People passionate about startups just wouldn't agree with that.

> Also, the parent joined HN 12 days after you.

I was more talking about the voters (both parent up voters and my down voters). Anyone can make a throw away comment but voting patterns say something. It would be really interesting to know the average 'age' of the up-voters and what other posts/comments where correlated. I'm detecting a growing 'arts studenty', anti-capitalist, humanist, complaining sentiment here (i.e. reddit). I'd prefer a community that has a deeper interest in getting stuff done rather than complaining about the 'system'.

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