Satoshi Nakamoto moves his 6.5 yr old bitcoins • Hacker News Board

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto moves his 6.5 yr old bitcoins

#61

Post by lisper » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 5:24 PM UTC

kragen wrote: post #55

lisper wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand. Either this transaction has a valid signature or it doesn't. If it does, then AFACIT the only possible way that it could not be confirmed sooner or later is if it's a double-spend. What am I missing?

Maybe blockchain.info generates its web pages from a database, and someone inserted a record into the database that doesn't correspond to a transaction with a valid signature? Although if that's the case you would maybe expect them to not mark it as "unconfirmed".

But surely someone would have just checked the signatures on these transactions by now? (I would do it myself but I'm not familiar enough with the bitcoin transaction format.)

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto moves his 6.5 yr old bitcoins

#62

Post by phkahler » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 5:31 PM UTC

corysama wrote: post #53

chasing wrote: post #29

Is this lack of anonymity a feature of Bitcoin?

Yes, actually. Bitcoin is widely mis-reported as anonymous when the reality is that every bitcoin transaction ever made is publicly and permanently recorded in the distributed ledger. That's how anyone and everyone can verify that the ledger is legit. These transactions are associated with wallet ID numbers, not names. And, anyone can create a fresh, unassociated, empty wallet at any time. But, it's not hard to follo…

...every bitcoin transaction ever made is publicly and permanently recorded in the distributed ledger...

Does this ledger ever get rolled up? I thought something like that was part of the system. Otherwise you'd have an ever growing transaction log and the system would fail eventually, wouldn't it?

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto moves his 6.5 yr old bitcoins

#63

Post by lisper » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 5:33 PM UTC

wehadfun wrote: post #60

pmlamotte wrote: post #21

For those not aware, the original 50 coins sent to this address were generated from the genesis block, the first block on the blockchain. However, the transaction is still unconfirmed, so until it is this could be nothing. Market has been scared downwards though.

How do you determine that is from the genesis block? Also how do you know it is Sataoshi's? Because it is from the Genesis or is there some other method?

> How do you determine that is from the genesis block?

Go to:

https://blockchain.info/en/address/12c6DSiU4Rq3P4ZxziKxzrL5L...

Scroll down to the bottom, where you will see:

https://blockchain.info/tx/0e3e2357e806b6cdb1f70b54c3a3a17b6...

That is the genesis block.

(Well, OK, that's the transaction contained in the genesis block. The Genesis block itself is https://blockchain.info/block-index/14850)

> Also how do you know it is Sataoshi's?

Because he was the only one mining when bitcoin launched.

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto moves his 6.5 yr old bitcoins

#64

Post by toyg » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 5:37 PM UTC

Simulacra wrote: post #27

toyg wrote: post #14

That's about $15k at today's rate, according to Google. Not much, really.

That would pay off my student loans nicely. $15k is still much to some :)

yeah but he's reportedly worth millions among various wallets. If he spends them all in one go, the market will take a big hit.

If it's just 15k, it's not a biggie, apart from the news that he's alive (or at least, that somebody has control of some of his wallets).

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto moves his 6.5 yr old bitcoins

#65

Post by murbul » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 5:40 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #61

kragen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe blockchain.info generates its web pages from a database, and someone inserted a record into the database that doesn't correspond to a transaction with a valid signature? Although if that's the case you would maybe expect them to not mark it as "unconfirmed".

But surely someone would have just checked the signatures on these transactions by now? (I would do it myself but I'm not familiar enough with the bitcoin transaction format.)

They're definitely invalid transactions. The public keys and signatures do not match the address they're trying to spend from. Only blockchain.info failed to detect this minor detail.

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto moves his 6.5 yr old bitcoins

#66

Post by ikeboy » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 5:41 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #61

kragen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe blockchain.info generates its web pages from a database, and someone inserted a record into the database that doesn't correspond to a transaction with a valid signature? Although if that's the case you would maybe expect them to not mark it as "unconfirmed".

But surely someone would have just checked the signatures on these transactions by now? (I would do it myself but I'm not familiar enough with the bitcoin transaction format.)

The raw tx can be found at https://blockchain.info/rawtx/26d80a02ebdd9886b5a859c69c3470...

https://twitter.com/maraoz/status/628614596618813440 confirms it's a fake.

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto moves his 6.5 yr old bitcoins

#67

Post by ikeboy » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 5:41 PM UTC

0x0 wrote: post #39

ChrisClark wrote: post #34

It only appears to be recorded on blockchain.info. None of the other blockchain explorers seem to see it. I'd hold off on the news until it's been confirmed. Edit: Others have checked and can't find any of these transactions in the blockchain. Either a blockchain.info bug or hack at this point. Nothing has moved.

Would it be possible, just by looking at the blockchain.info website, to prove that whatever is going on is signed by someone with the private keys to these coins? If the transaction signatures validates, does it matter whether the they are accepted by the network - it would still prove "he's alive"?

It would; however in this case, the signatures do not validate, they're from a different address.

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto moves his 6.5 yr old bitcoins

#68

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 5:45 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #62

corysama wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, actually. Bitcoin is widely mis-reported as anonymous when the reality is that every bitcoin transaction ever made is publicly and permanently recorded in the distributed ledger. That's how anyone and everyone can verify that the ledger is legit. These transactions are associated with wallet ID numbers, not names. And, anyone can create a fresh, unassociated, empty wallet at any time. But, it's not hard to follo…

...every bitcoin transaction ever made is publicly and permanently recorded in the distributed ledger... Does this ledger ever get rolled up? I thought something like that was part of the system. Otherwise you'd have an ever growing transaction log and the system would fail eventually, wouldn't it?

Yes and no.

Since pruning support was added, a full node no longer needs to have the full blockchain. In situations where storage is limited, you simply need enough for verifying new blocks.

Many nodes will still keep the full transaction history, though there is no requirement to for bitcoin to function. As long as there is interest in looking at old transactions, people will hold on to that old data.

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto moves his 6.5 yr old bitcoins

#69

Post by sp332 » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 5:51 PM UTC

Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote: post #68

phkahler wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...every bitcoin transaction ever made is publicly and permanently recorded in the distributed ledger... Does this ledger ever get rolled up? I thought something like that was part of the system. Otherwise you'd have an ever growing transaction log and the system would fail eventually, wouldn't it?

Yes and no. Since pruning support was added, a full node no longer needs to have the full blockchain. In situations where storage is limited, you simply need enough for verifying new blocks. Many nodes will still keep the full transaction history, though there is no requirement to for bitcoin to function. As long as there is interest in looking at old transactions, people will hold on to that old data.

Don't you have to download the full blockchain when you bootstap a new node, to verify all the transactions? After you verify that a transaction has been spent, you can prune it from your local copy. But someone still has to keep all the old transactions around for new nodes to download, right?

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto moves his 6.5 yr old bitcoins

#70

Post by murbul » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 5:57 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #63

wehadfun wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you determine that is from the genesis block? Also how do you know it is Sataoshi's? Because it is from the Genesis or is there some other method?

> How do you determine that is from the genesis block? Go to: https://blockchain.info/en/address/12c6DSiU4Rq3P4ZxziKxzrL5L... Scroll down to the bottom, where you will see: https://blockchain.info/tx/0e3e2357e806b6cdb1f70b54c3a3a17b6... That is the genesis block. (Well, OK, that's the transaction contained in the genesis block. The Genesis block itself is https://blockchain.info/block-index/14850 ) > Also how do you…

The genesis block is actually block 0, you're looking at block 1.

Incidentally, the genesis block reward is unspendable. It's not really known if that was intentional or a bug in the initial implementation, but the rule persists.