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Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

paolino.me

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Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#591

Post by glad_duck »

rayiner wrote: post #308
Zak wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A company that starts with nothing wouldn't be a GmbH (limited liability company), it would be a GoH (company without liability), and there's a good reason why those don't exist... Those do exist in other countries. An LLC in the USA does not generally need to have a certain amount of assets. Such a company is more or less without liability until it has some assets; the worst case for its owners when it comes to a…

Not quite. In the US this condition is handled at the back end. Running a corporation or LLC without sufficient capitalization can be grounds for piercing the liability shield in a lawsuit.

Haven't heard anything about LLC capitalization in this context. Liability shield can be pierced, but only if LLC is misused (i.e. "when the company is treated as a personal "alter ego" and used to commit fraud, injustice, or illegal acts"). Lack of capitalization is not one of the reasons as long as you treat it as a company, not your wallet.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#592

Post by ccozan »

jojomodding wrote: post #577
JanSt wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, if you don't handle this correctly you become personally liable

Probably criminally liable for bankruptcy as well. At least in Germany (where I am vaguely familiar with the law) you lose bankruptcy protection for debts you take on that are knowingly not covered by existing assets or expected future income. This is usually hard to prove, but if your assets are 0 and there was never a viable plan all along they'll likely found you guilty. This means you become personally liable to…

In Germany yes, the law is pretty tough: you need to think _every_ day this "Will I be able to pay anything I have to pay with a horizon of 12 months?"

If in one day answer is NO, you have to immediatelly go and register insolvency. If you do not do it, big issue, and possible jail time.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#593

Post by dcrazy »

thedrbrian wrote: post #363

> And no, I could not just leave instead. My first company, Freshflow, is valuable enough that walking out of Germany would trigger a massive six-figure exit tax Something is wrong here if you will be liable for at least a hundred grand of exit but balk over 25k to start a new company.

It’s not like the first company is just a pile of cash. He would have to sell his shares to free up liquidity.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#594

Post by [deleted] »

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #522
ghaff wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I set up an LLC in the US for about $500 and pay Delaware a few hundred each year in fees. As it turned out, it was probably an unnecessary exercise and I probably won't renew in a couple years. But it wasn't a big deal.

Delaware is expensive and you must have had a very specific reason to build your LLC there, rather than for example in Wyoming - such that to raise capital, build a corporation, etc. Now if you want to shut it down in a couple of years, it's not exactly clear what you had in mind.

[deleted]

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#595

Post by TulliusCicero »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #535
TulliusCicero wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germans will say they're not very patriotic, but really the way German patriotism manifests is a resistance to outside criticism paired with a stubborn insistence that things ought not change.

I haven’t seen it manifest any differently elsewhere?

Americans on the Internet will often heartily agree with foreigners about all kinds of things that are shit in America and need to be changed: public transit, walkability, health care costs, university costs, money in politics, lack of basic geographic knowledge, etc.

Of course there are some more conservative folks who may be more resistant to those critiques, but the average American will just nod along. If you mention on this website that healthcare in the US can be insanely expensive, you'll mostly see agreement from Americans.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#596

Post by orthoxerox »

chmod775 wrote: post #489
ffsm8 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany getting 25k as a working adult is hard, because before taxes and social security that's 50k you need to earn. Thats more then an average person earns in a year before taxes , so they'll likely be saving for 5-10 years if they want to start one. Now wherever that's an issue with the 25k admission fee OR with the fact that wages have stagnated for about 25 years in Germany, consequently mostly wiping out the…

> In Germany getting 25k as a working adult is hard German median household wealth is 4x that.

Exactly, would bet 25% of all that your family has on a business venture?

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#597

Post by ccozan »

earcar wrote: post #48
VadimPR wrote: post #8

Before Europe gets lumped in as one country, founding a company in Netherlands and Sweden, speaking from personal experience, is a breeze. Although Sweden is a bit strange in the fact that banks have as much equal say as the government authority does in you starting a company, and if they don't want you as a customer, they can simply deny the right for your company to start!

That is refreshing to hear. Unfortunately I can't get out because of exit tax, an unrealized capital gains tax for the privilege of leaving the country. That is way worse than what I mention in this post and will get its own post soon.

That is nothing: wait until you want to _close_ a company in Germany :)

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#599

Post by mrbnprck »

throwaway15805 wrote: post #21

Been there too. Paying thousands of € for a notary just to read some text you wrote out loud to you is absurd. The cherry on top is the exit tax: > And no, I could not just leave instead. My first company, Freshflow, is valuable enough that walking out of Germany would trigger a massive six-figure exit tax, on gains I have not even realised, purely for the privilege of leaving. This is ostensibly there to prevent lar…

A notary has a legal duty, and is personally liable in case of failure to fulfill those. But generally that risk of failure is pretty low.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#600

Post by ccozan »

notanormalnerd wrote: post #472
whazor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany it might be easier to open a company remotely via Estonia

You should Google "Place of effective management" A lot of the entrepreneurs I meet become tax & social insurance fraudsters as soon as I mention this, because they think they can setup a company somewhere but live in Spain, without paying or registering companies here.

yes because you are handling 100s of milions and you are some sort of public face then you get targeted.

But if you are some noname making maybe up to a few mils per year income, nobody is going to chase you and prove you are avoiding local taxation. You are always "in a short holiday trip" :).

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