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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#591

Post by sheepscreek »

nl wrote: post #432
sheepscreek wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The (memory) chip shortage saga is not going away for a few years. Most fabs are going to be capacity starved. Apple will happily pony up billions to TSMC to set up a new plant in exchange for exclusive capacity. No other laptop manufacturer can do this. This will put them in an even more advantageous position. In all honesty, the Neo couldn’t have arrived at a better time for them.

TSMC doesn't do memory. AMD actually got access to TSMC 2nm before Apple: https://www.amd.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2025-4-14-amd...

I was commenting specifically on this bit:

> Once the chip shortage from AI datacenters bubble pops, we could see even better SoCs from Intel, AMD, and even Qualcomm and Nvidia could join the ARM laptop battle in a serious way.

EPYC (the 2nm AMD chip being produced at TSMC Arizona) is still going to support the datacenter demand, not consumer devices. You and I are still screwed. Apple is the only behemoth, IMO, that wields significant power against other trillion dollar companies. Not Acer, not HP, not even Dell (I don’t think). This is my personal opinion, I don’t have specific facts at hand to back it. Just a strong intuition.

But hey, govts might step in at some point and say - we need to put a cap on how much supply data-centres can buy. Since computers and phones are the backbone of modern society. There may be some rationing happening down the line.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#592

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

culopatin wrote: post #571
simonsan wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I run Asahi on another M1 MBP and Linux makes it the best laptop I've ever used. Until you need to repair something or change some hardware ... Which is something the author of the article totally neglects, IMHO.

By the time something breaks, you’re so far behind in tech that you’re not buying parts for it anymore. I used to be in the “must be able to fix/upgrade” and then realized in practice it never happens.

Of the four frameworks I bought to test. I’ve repaired components from two, a screen and a touchpad both from damage.

But, two other frameworks were totally unacceptable for users, so it wasn’t really a great experiment.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#593

Post by roryirvine »

altcognito wrote: post #585
nottorp wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The corners are huge, even when maximized. Upgraded to Mac OS 26? > You can hide it. I rarely use it as I use a launcher. Cmd+Space, type first letters of application name, enter.

I definitely use this, but if you want to navigate to specific window on an app, prepare to be annoyed. MacOS doesn't really have a window manager, it has an app switcher, and a really inconvenient way to pick the context of your workspace.

cmd + ` switches between windows of an app. Unfortunately, that's the most awkward key combo imaginable on non-US keyboards. Still better than having to mouse down to the (hidden) dock, but only marginally.

GNOME does it right, and uses super + . Works the same as the Mac in the US, but is infinitely better in the rest of the world.

(you might be able to remap it on macos using an undocumented 'hidutil' command, but I've never got it to work on an external keyboard)

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#594

Post by makeitdouble »

blazarquasar wrote: post #474
makeitdouble wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your universal "value for money" index that should apply to everyone ? For instance why should a touch support or better port selection be less valuable to me than let's say battery life ? Does supporting multiple OSes have a defined value to money ratio that I'm not aware of ?

Well, thats why I specifically mentioned “performance and build-quality wise”. If you want to run Linux, then it’s obviously not a viable option.

It's still the same kind of argument. What you mean by "build quality" is probably mainly the unibody frame ? Why not include repairability as litteral build quality ? and what about weight or shock absorption?

Same way "performance" can't be a fixed set of measures for everyone. I care about GPU speed in VR games and macs doen't give me much of it.

My point is we can't throw around "X is better performance wise" with no context, it makes no sense on its own.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#595

Post by culopatin »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #592
culopatin wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time something breaks, you’re so far behind in tech that you’re not buying parts for it anymore. I used to be in the “must be able to fix/upgrade” and then realized in practice it never happens.

Of the four frameworks I bought to test. I’ve repaired components from two, a screen and a touchpad both from damage. But, two other frameworks were totally unacceptable for users, so it wasn’t really a great experiment.

Of the 6 MacBooks that have circled through my house since 2018 I’ve had to do repairs on 0 of them. 5 are still active

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#596

Post by p2detar »

swiftcoder wrote: post #573
jnovek wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What web stuff are you guys working on that 16GB didn’t cut it a few years ago? I’m not questioning your statement, it’s just completely different world from my day-to-day and I’m curious.

In my case, the corporate MDM solution consumed so much resources that a 16GB MacBook was basically unusable for dev work (my personal Mac, also with 16GB in those days, was fine)

I find it hard to believe that it was due to the MDM? The Apple MDM protocol is embedded in MacOS. Were you using some sort of agent software?

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#597

Post by throwaway21856 »

joxdosba wrote: post #542
sfjailbird wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how Apple has come full circle. Back in the 90s, when they were in deep crisis (before the second coming of Jobs), it was almost conventional wisdom that they should just stop selling hardware, and focus on their superior software. And here we are today when a lot of people lust for the hardware, but just can't deal with MacOS.

> And here we are today when a lot of people lust for the hardware, but just can't deal with MacOS Are there actually a lot of such people? Linux-on-desktop users are certainly loud, but also extremely uncommon.

I'd partly count. I've always run a mix of Windows and Linux (these days mostly through WSL), but for whatever reason I find MacOS bothersome compared to a Linux desktop.

Strictly speaking, I'm not yet ready to move off x86 either, but it's getting harder to find high quality hardware in the PC world.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#598

Post by margalabargala »

bel8 wrote: post #234
akkartik wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're preaching to the choir, brother. But reread the comment I replied to. "Use as-is until e-waste" the Neo is not.

> "Use as-is until e-waste" the Neo is not That's a very low bar to clear

Yes, which makes the comment claiming the neo doesn't clear it all the more egregious.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#599

Post by [deleted] »

p2detar wrote: post #596
swiftcoder wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case, the corporate MDM solution consumed so much resources that a 16GB MacBook was basically unusable for dev work (my personal Mac, also with 16GB in those days, was fine)

I find it hard to believe that it was due to the MDM? The Apple MDM protocol is embedded in MacOS. Were you using some sort of agent software?

[deleted]

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#600

Post by ece »

culopatin wrote: post #595
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the four frameworks I bought to test. I’ve repaired components from two, a screen and a touchpad both from damage. But, two other frameworks were totally unacceptable for users, so it wasn’t really a great experiment.

Of the 6 MacBooks that have circled through my house since 2018 I’ve had to do repairs on 0 of them. 5 are still active

Let me guess, no upgrades either.
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