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I returned to AWS and was reminded why I left

fourlightyears.blogspot.com

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Re: I returned to AWS and was reminded why I left

#591

Post by dns_snek »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #570
dns_snek wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how one company is entitled to turn an open source project into business and the other is not. According to the original license they are both entitled to do that, that's the problem. Do you think it's sustainable for one company to make the software for free and another one to sell it for profit?

> According to the original license they are both entitled to do that, that's the problem. I really don't see how Amazon is to blame for this problem, they weren't the ones who picked the license. > Do you think it's sustainable for one company to make the software for free and another one to sell it for profit? They both sell it for profit, let the most profitable one win.

> I really don't see how Amazon is to blame for this problem, they weren't the ones who picked the license.

Because parasitic antisocial behavior is viewed negatively.

> They both sell it for profit, let the most profitable one win.

Trying to apply market dynamics to selling things you didn't produce (or pay for) is fascinating...

Re: I returned to AWS and was reminded why I left

#592

Post by glemmaPaul »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #575
AJRF wrote: post #572

AWS / GCP / Azure aren't for individuals or small businesses. They won't tell you this anywhere, and they won't stop you from signing up - but they simply do not care one iota about users with anything less than $100k billing per month. They treat big account owners like kings, they fly them out to Formula 1 events, they get 3 day workshops in swanky retreats, because a few k spent on this equals maybe millions of do…

All good points. What do you recommend for the "small potatoes"?

I've been using Scaleway and cannot complain yet, don't know their region reach though..

Re: I returned to AWS and was reminded why I left

#594

Post by Orygin »

dns_snek wrote: post #587
Orygin wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't this a problem for other databases then? I'm sure most cloud sell some MariaDB services. Why would they be able to profit from it? It's because the business model for ES is direct competition with AWS and others, and they got out competed. So they had to play licenses games to try and level the field.

> Why isn't this a problem for other databases then? It is? - MongoDB went from AGPL to SSPL - Redis went from BSD to SSPL - Elasticsearch went from AGPL to SSPL - CockroachDB went from Apache to BSL - TimescaleDB went from Apache to Apache + TLS - Graylog went from GPL to SSPL > It's because the business model for ES is direct competition with AWS and others, and they got out competed. So they had to play licenses g…

Yes and the result is these databases got forked, and the community got rightfully mad.

But other databases don't need it, and stayed truly open source, because their business model doesn't rely on being the only hosting provider.

> You didn't incur any costs in producing the thing you're selling, duh!

Indeed, you gave it away for free, saying I could sell it... It doesn't take a business genius to know AWS can undercut your hosting services.

It goes to show that most of these companies don't really care about open source. They cared more about making money and open source was a useful facade to get people to contribute for free.

Re: I returned to AWS and was reminded why I left

#595

Post by cindyllm »

eddy-sekorti wrote: post #593

Hahaha good one, what was the reason, the complexity, the cost, or simply the clunkiness in the whole setup. I was using Heroku and moved to AWS for saving cost and now endup paying more and thinking about what to do. AWS gets expensive very qucikly.

[dead]

Re: I returned to AWS and was reminded why I left

#596

Post by earnesti »

stingraycharles wrote: post #584
AJRF wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hetzner. You won't get much better support, and you will have to deal with EU legislative nonsense, but it won't be hard to do that if you are actually small. Why do I say Hetzner? It's very budget friendly and has a very small list of services so its much harder to screw yourself into a situation where its hard to leave.

For individuals, probably. For SMBs spending $10k - $100k a month, I would absolutely advise against that.

Why is that? I've seen couple of small firms using hetzner very successfully and saving a lot of money compared to whatever cloud offering.

Re: I returned to AWS and was reminded why I left

#597

Post by jasonlotito »

maest wrote: post #522
rpdillon wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a problem with their business model, then. License changes to a formerly open source project are costly. The community reacts very strongly when license terms change after they've come to depend on a product, and they should. Why do we apply this standard to MongoDB but not to Apache, Linux, Postgres, or MariaDB? One purpose of an open source license is to allow many providers to provide the service. As I'v…

> It's weird to me that the Hacker News community doesn't think that sort of competition is good. Negative externalities. The company makes money using a free resource and disincentivises future development. I'm sure you can see why killing the most popular business model for open source companies is bad for the ecosystem, right?

> The company makes money using a free resource and disincentivises future development.

Open source companies should pick open source licenses that support that business model. They don't. It's short term thinking.

Re: I returned to AWS and was reminded why I left

#598

Post by pabs3 »

streetfighter64 wrote: post #582
pabs3 wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is incorrect, the FSF licenses would require Amazon contribute code forward to their users, not back to the project. Also, Amazon were already contributing code back when these companies changed their licenses, the companies don't care about code contributions, just money.

Those greedy software companies only care about money, unlike the gracious Amazon that's all about code contributions... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amazon

Don't get me wrong, Amazon are evil for sure, and worse than those companies.

Re: I returned to AWS and was reminded why I left

#599

Post by etothet »

There are many reasons to dislike AWS and many reasons to stay away from it (and the criticisms in the article about support resonate with me), but a few things in the article stood out to me as a bit misleading:

First, the comparison of running an Anthropic model in Bedrock vs. Claude Code is not apples-to-apples. With Bedrock pay API pricing (or whatever negotiated pricing AWS and the vendor agreed to), just like the other providers in Bedrock. You know what else is more expensive/token than a Claude Code subscription? API access for pretty much all of the other big providers. Whether we like it or not, Anthropic sees subscrition usage as different than API usage. This is not at all an AWS thing.

Second, regarding Lambda: the cold start criticism is fair but for heavy workloads usually isn't an issue and for light workloads there are some workarounds. But, if you have a discreet function that can exist outside of your app, Lambda still may be a better option here. As far as the "MASSIVE development complexity" I wish the author cited specifics. I feel like this can be true of any technology and depends on how you go about setting it up and implementing it. I've used Lambda for all sorts of use cases, including a full web application (I'd advise staying away from this one!) and there definitely is a sweet spot where it can work well.

Lastly, the whole bit about using AWS WorkMail would also suggest they never really "left" AWS. But maybe I misunderstood that part as I'm not very familiar with that service.

Re: I returned to AWS and was reminded why I left

#600

Post by coldpie »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #575
AJRF wrote: post #572

AWS / GCP / Azure aren't for individuals or small businesses. They won't tell you this anywhere, and they won't stop you from signing up - but they simply do not care one iota about users with anything less than $100k billing per month. They treat big account owners like kings, they fly them out to Formula 1 events, they get 3 day workshops in swanky retreats, because a few k spent on this equals maybe millions of do…

All good points. What do you recommend for the "small potatoes"?

I chose Digital Ocean. I just need a tiny Debian server I can run a couple self-managed services on and DO gave me exactly that for $4/mo.

I was with Azure before that and good lord was that a mistake. Miserable experience if all you need is a single VM.

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