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New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#591

Post by analog8374 »

danparsonson wrote: post #589
lynx97 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matthew 7:3–5 I am not religious, but this quote keeps coming up... And people keep forgetting about it.

Forgive me if I'm mischaracterising you but you seem to be not only reinforcing the false equivalence but in fact doubling down on it? That trans rights protesters are not only morally equivalent to nationalist protesters, but in fact, in some way more of a problem? A plank in the eye vs a mote of dust? When I say 'false equivalence' in this context I don't mean 'nationalist protesters are all bad and trans rights pr…

In this we are referring to the method of holding, not the thing held.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#592

Post by [deleted] »

nkmnz wrote: post #536
runarberg wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your attempt to paint me as a hypocrite fails because it assumes I don’t consider the flag of Palestine to be distinct from the flag of Hamas. But I do consider these to be distinct flags.

Just to get the record straight: I don’t paint you as a hypocrite. I paint you as a supporter of terrorists.

[deleted]

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#593

Post by boxed »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #510
boxed wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm? Which is which? Is this one of those British things people from normal countries don't understand? Like the difference between United Kingdom and Great Britain.

Glad you asked! Perhaps I should have used the term “sovereign state”, as that’s more precise, even though when most people use the colloquial term “nation” (as in “nationalism”) they’re referring to a sovereign state. A sovereign state has borders they can enforce to their own discretion (political gridlock notwithstanding), a stable and well-defined (non-transient) population, a single recognized government (both i…

Yea but that falls apart on even a slight poke.

Who is trans? Anyone who identifies as trans.

Who is British? Anyone who identifies as British.

There's not a lot of difference there. Citizenship COULD be used, but now you're talking about two different domains of language. A person who is British but now has an American citizenship, still talks with a British accent and identifies as British is still British. The same way a trans person with XY is still a woman if she identifies as a women, even though that person is also a male in another domain of speech.

Humans who identify as "humans, not animals" are just stupid and wrong in the scientific domain of speech, but absolutely correct and reasonable in the colloquial domain of speech.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#594

Post by pigclocks »

danparsonson wrote: post #589
lynx97 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matthew 7:3–5 I am not religious, but this quote keeps coming up... And people keep forgetting about it.

Forgive me if I'm mischaracterising you but you seem to be not only reinforcing the false equivalence but in fact doubling down on it? That trans rights protesters are not only morally equivalent to nationalist protesters, but in fact, in some way more of a problem? A plank in the eye vs a mote of dust? When I say 'false equivalence' in this context I don't mean 'nationalist protesters are all bad and trans rights pr…

> given the trans rights cause itself is centered around support and love for a group of people

If only that were true. As a political project, it's mostly focused on abolishing the boundaries around single-sex spaces, and certainly in terms of rhetoric, mostly those boundaries used to safeguard women and girls.

Just look at the frequent threats of violence and death threats that women who speak out against this, such as JK Rowling, receive from trans ideological activists. This is not a movement of love and support.

> I've been in the presence of a nationalist rally once, and even as a cis white guy it was a scary thing. I would have absolutely no qualms whatsoever showing up to a trans rights march.

That's because you are male and you're not in disagreement with them. If you were female with "terf" views you would almost certainly feel differently. There are some dangerous, violent men who attend these marches, as is the case with the nationalist ones.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#595

Post by gib444 »

tim333 wrote: post #524
gib444 wrote: post #352

People are waking up to the decades of gaslighting and lies about failed immigration. It can't be stopped now. Nobody cares if they are called a "racist" because the word has been overused and is meaningless. Much of the media relentlessly continues with its gaslighting of course because the establishment wants and needs immigration. But people know they barely hear English in many parts of England, see high streets…

Maybe but not sure how that relates to the statue?

Er I thought it was obvious? The statue, which is a massive dig at nationalism/blind patriotism - or perhaps any love for your own country at all...

It's pretty offensive given how far the scales were balanced in the other direction for so long.

How did you interpret the statue?

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#596

Post by Nasrudith »

manesioz wrote: post #490

Banksy is peak redditor. Masquerading as a free-thinking activist who happens to agree with every talking point of the established media and global bureaucratic regime.

I mean, sometimes the status quo is just that you can continue breathing. To be blindly for or against something just because it is the status quo is abject stupidity. Sawing at the bough which you rest upon is not something to be proud of.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#597

Post by throwuxiytayq »

briansm wrote: post #586
EchoReflection wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's a good quote. I have to say though, despite the appeal of "rejecting 'tribalism' ", it is (or should be) "undeniable" that some "tribes" are "better" than others. There are reasons literally nobody wants to go to North Korea and people all over the world want to "flee" to countries that are meritocracies and support ideas like freedom of speech, women's rights, freedom of religion, etc. "Nobody" would claim (a…

In the developed world we have 'energy slaves' instead; around 100 per person in the USA in the 2020's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_slave This is arguably the reason why the Overton window has shifted towards the rejection of human slavery over the last century or so, with the growth of fossil fuel use. Human slavery will thus likely swing back into fashion again in the future as oil, coal and natural gas ru…

> Human slavery will thus likely swing back into fashion again in the future as oil, coal and natural gas run out.

There must be some other solution, surely! If only we could somehow find some other source of energy...

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#598

Post by Timwi »

erikerikson wrote: post #513
ggm wrote: post #2

The point is not just that he's blinded by the flag: He's boldly marching into the void, confident. "wrapped in the flag" is a great saying.

Given that the flag bearer apparently walked on to the pillar, why wouldn't we suspect they can repeat the performance?

Because by walking off the edge they will injure themselves.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#599

Post by pydry »

foldr wrote: post #562
pydry wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im familiar with who he is. At the time his claim to fame was coming up with Nathan Barley, which is why I suspected there was more than a little jealousy there. He got more famous and acclaimed since black mirror.

I get the jealously part, but the highbrow part seems off to me. Brooker has always shown much more interest in distinctly lowbrow art forms such as video games. I don't think he is sneering at Banksy because he thinks we should be looking at the paintings of the Old Masters instead.

Right but he knows guardian readers think that and he's pandering to their snobbery with his comments about Banksy rolling around in the pop culture mud.

At the same time it's painfully obvious it riled him up being a more obscure and less famous equivalent of banksy.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#600

Post by Ukv »

rjinman wrote: post #574
rjinman wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Most people I know who have flags proudly displayed are left wing and their flags are usually one of: the Palestinian flag, the ukrainian flag, the LGBT rainbow flag, or the trans flag.

It’s amazing how everyone thinks this sculpture’s message doesn’t apply to them. “My side’s flags are different, it’s the other side’s flags that are bad”. So many people here making this argument. It’s beyond parody, yet really so predictable. Amazing lack of self awareness. I thought this place was more rational than Reddit, but apparently not!

> It’s amazing how everyone thinks this sculpture’s message doesn’t apply to them. “My side’s flags are different, it’s the other side’s flags that are bad”

The sculpture's message isn't "flags are bad" - it's using a flag as a metaphor for nationalism/blind patriotism (based on the rest of the statue, the location chosen, what it's a response to, and Banksy's other works).

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