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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#591

Post by schiffern »

arbitrary_name wrote: post #556
hedora wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell, a software defined vehicle is one that has fewer computers in it for cost cutting reasons. There’s an argument to be made that this allows better integration between subsystems, and therefore a better user experience. We have a vehicle built this way. It is a death trap. Most of its safety issues can’t really be blamed on it using a new computer network technology. For instance, if it is dawn or…

can you share what vehicle that is? i don't know why you wouldn't just name it in the post...

Looks like it's the F-150 Lightning. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47421383

I chalk it up to poorly designed software from a company where software isn't the core competency, rather than blaming the basic concept of putting software in a vehicle.

"Bad software is bad" doesn't have the same ring though...

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#592

Post by fc417fc802 »

josephg wrote: post #504
lmm wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's silly and it works, it's not silly. Criticising our entire economic system tends to have very little effect. Criticising specific poor business practices and/or technologies that enable them has a much better chance of improving people's lives.

> Criticising our entire economic system tends to have very little effect. I think its actively counterproductive. Criticising the entire economic system doesn't do anything. Complaining in broad strokes about stuff you can't change reduces your sense of agency over the world. Also, if people believe that businesses must be sociopathic, they will make sociopathic choices in business. The belief reinforces the problem…

It's not that they must be, rather that they are incentivized to be. If you dangle money in front of them what were you expecting?

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#593

Post by cyberax »

sys_64738 wrote: post #270
darknavi wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anything you need to plug into a power source is doomed to fail. Totally disagree. One of the reasons I drive an EV is so I _can_ plug it in and never go to a gas station again. What a useless exercise and waste of my time, especially for a penny-pincher like me who would wait in like for 20 minutes at Costco for gas.

Plugging it in is why it is so awful. It takes ages to charge it and you don't get very much range for a full charge. Battery technology is so incredibly poor right now and EV manufacturers are just plain dumb until they make the body of the car harness the sun's rays.

> until they make the body of the car harness the sun's rays.

The surface area of a car usable for solar panels is about 3 square meters. At the absolute best, when the stars align just right, you're going to get about 1 kW of power out of these panels.

In other words, barely enough to offset the auxiliary systems in the car (cooling pumps, lights, computers, etc.)

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#594

Post by WalterBright »

neya wrote: post #453
rkagerer wrote: post #308

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

Most people including the author think more software = premium/better. But as software engineers, we know better. That's not the case at all. More software = more control by everyone else except you. Manufacturers. Governments. For this reason, I always avoid cars with big flashy LCD screens that are central to controlling the cars accessories like sunroof, AC and other electricals. The other issue is support. So man…

I was told by a car dealer service guy that if the touch screen went on the blink, the car would be totaled. (Since replacing it cost more than the car was worth.)

I've often thought the touch screen should be replaced by a socket that accepts an iPad, and put the auto custom software on that. Why reinvent the hardware?

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#595

Post by pmontra »

neya wrote: post #453
rkagerer wrote: post #308

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

Most people including the author think more software = premium/better. But as software engineers, we know better. That's not the case at all. More software = more control by everyone else except you. Manufacturers. Governments. For this reason, I always avoid cars with big flashy LCD screens that are central to controlling the cars accessories like sunroof, AC and other electricals. The other issue is support. So man…

It's not only bug fixing. It's what happens to phones too: updates for a fixed number of years.

I don't see the point to pay a premium for a new car (it's not a tool for my work) so I always buy second hand. My Citroën C3 from 2016 never upgraded to the new backward incompatible Android auto from the late 2010s. I bought it in 2020 and I wasn't able to connect to it with my phone from 2019 which came with the new Android auto. BTW iPhones could connect. Last time I checked was 2024.

This particular problem is not important because I put my phone in a holder close to my wheel and I get a better navigator than my car could ever be with its 3 colors LCD panel, but cars can last much more than phones and stopping support at any time during their lifetime could be a problem. I understand that supporting a 2016 car in 2036 could be a problem too, so just give us the mechanical part with the firmware of engine, brakes etc and the usual knobs and buttons. Each passenger has a personal infotainment system in their hands and spend their time liking at it with earpieces in their ears. No need to duplicate that in the car.

I'm past 130k km now so I'll be looking for another second hand car a few years from now. I'm afraid that it will be from the middle of the worst period of the car dashboards. Maybe I'll be partially saved by looking at a low price point.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#596

Post by simondotau »

rkagerer wrote: post #308

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

I appreciate your sentiment, and I agree with you in the hypothetical universe I think you’re imagining. But in this universe, that ship has long since sailed. Cars are software. They have been so for a long time. The only difference between a Tesla and an economy car from Stellantis is whether the software is well written or not.

My wife has a 2015 Jeep Cherokee. For its purpose It’s actually quite a nice vehicle, sending aside concerns of mechanical reliability. But it also has many annoyances, and EVERY single one of them (with no exceptions) are software-defined bugs or behaviours, and all could all be improved with software updates. But legacy order has never cared about improving software after you bought the car.

For all of Tesla’s many faults, they one of the first automakers where it feels like the software is not abandonware. It’s a positive trend and it’s nice to see a few other manufacturers following suit.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#597

Post by no-name-here »

Denatonium wrote: post #44

Calling the Prologue "Honda's EV" feels like a huge stretch. The Prologue was a rebadged GM vehicle that served strictly as a compliance car for meeting CAFE standards. Now that the CAFE standards have been rendered toothless, there's no longer a need for that deal.

> Calling the Prologue "Honda's EV" feels like a huge stretch. The Prologue was a rebadged GM vehicle …

I don't see the OP article call the Prologue "Honda's EV"? Instead, the OP article explicitly says the Prologue was both "designed and entirely built by GM."

That's separate from where the OP article first states that Honda killed three other specific models "that were the company’s first ground-up EVs".

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#598

Post by kortilla »

yndoendo wrote: post #191
bwestergard wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"exporting your own oil and gas to be able to have a 'clean' (and up to recently heavily subsidized) transportation network is in a way just a gigantic bookkeeping trick" How so? If every oil exporter used some of their oil revenue to switch to EVs, that would, all things equal, hasten the transition to EVs. The U.S. is not doing that.

I still find it funny when it comes to oil between the USA and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia started moving the electrical system to renewables where USA is doubling down on fossil fuels. Saudi Arabia is the drug dealer that knows you don't consumer your own supply unless you must were the USA consumes the crack they sell. My next vehicle will 100% be pure EV, not Tesla.

The electrical system is unrelated to oil for transportation.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#599

Post by rdtsc »

> Here, Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time.

Hells yeah, Honda went to the top of my list all of the sudden. SDVs coded by vibe coding bros are just not for me.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#600

Post by kortilla »

TheDong wrote: post #549
prescriptivist wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to say this with the caveat that I am generally a person who always contends with the contradictions of living in a capitalist-imperialist country and my own distaste for it. So this doesn't come from a place of American exceptionalism writ large, but I am a firm believer the we did get this part right: Public lands and culture of the ability to access wild places, whether for hunting, fishing, hiking, camping…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protected_areas_of_Chi... > China has more than 10,000 protected areas, covering eighteen percent of the country's land https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_areas_of_the_United_... > As of 2022, the 42,826 protected areas covered 1,235,486 km2 (477,024 sq mi), or 13 percent of the land area of the United States. Can you be more specific? China has areas of protected wilderness…

A protected area like a national park is pretty much the opposite of what op is talking about.
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