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The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

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Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#591

Post by pelotron »

horsawlarway wrote: post #234
armchairhacker wrote: post #55

Age verification is very hard, because parents will give their children their unlocked account, and children will steal their parents' unlocked account. If that's criminalized (like alcohol), it will happen too often to prosecute (much more frequently than alcohol, which is rarely prosecuted anyways). I don't see a solution that isn't a fundamental culture shift. If there's a fundamental culture shift, there's an eas…

I don't understand how this is any better. It's my job as a parent (and I have several kids...) to monitor the things they consume and talk with them about it. I don't want some blanket ban on content unless it's "age appropriate", because I don't approve that content being banned. (honestly - the idea of "age appropriate" is insulting in the first place) Fuck man, I can even legally give my kids alcohol - I don't se…

People angrily replying to the top comment on this article are going to be pissed when they find out about this guy.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#592

Post by kjeldsendk »

Surprisingly there is solutions that work just fine.

It's like bankid or myid works in Scandinavian countries.

When you need to identify yourself you are challenged by a 3rd party trusted service.

Making this a age verification should be very easy.

https://www.mitid.dk/en-gb/about-mitid/?language=en-gb

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#593

Post by trinsic2 »

keithnz wrote: post #502
JohnMakin wrote: post #261

We'll try everything, it seems, other than holding parents accountable for what their children consume. In the United States, you can get in trouble if you recklessly leave around or provide alcohol/guns/cigarettes for a minor to start using, yet somehow, the same social responsibility seems thrown out the window for parents and the web. Yes, children are clever - I was one once. If you want to actually protect child…

don't you have to age verify to get alcohol? We don't leave that up to the parents. Feels like you defeated your own argument with your examples.

The internet is not an object, its a communication medium. That is an apples to organges argument, it doesn't wash.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#594

Post by luckydata »

JohnMakin wrote: post #261

We'll try everything, it seems, other than holding parents accountable for what their children consume. In the United States, you can get in trouble if you recklessly leave around or provide alcohol/guns/cigarettes for a minor to start using, yet somehow, the same social responsibility seems thrown out the window for parents and the web. Yes, children are clever - I was one once. If you want to actually protect child…

Excellent example of low effort cookie cutter empty rhetoric that would fit perfectly in reddit.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#595

Post by conductr »

techblueberry wrote: post #432
JohnMakin wrote: post #261

We'll try everything, it seems, other than holding parents accountable for what their children consume. In the United States, you can get in trouble if you recklessly leave around or provide alcohol/guns/cigarettes for a minor to start using, yet somehow, the same social responsibility seems thrown out the window for parents and the web. Yes, children are clever - I was one once. If you want to actually protect child…

I know this is weird, but I'm in some ways not really sure who is on the side of freedom here. I get your position, but like. The whole idea of the promise of the internet has been destroyed by newsfeeds and mega-corps. There is almost literally documented examples of Facebook executives twirling their mustaches wondering how they can get kids more addicted. This isn't a few bands with swear words, and in fact, I thi…

I don't get your point, at least not in relation to the GP post. I agree with GP, parents need to be more accountable. We as parents, and We should all be concerned about future children/generations, should be demanding more regulation to help force the change we need on this topic. We as a society need to treat SM like those other addictive product classes. The fact SM is addicting and execs try to juice it more, is frankly to be expected.

Vilify them all you want, but same has been done with nicotine products, alcohol products, etc. and to GPs point, we SM as a toy for our children to play with. We chose to change the rules (laws, regulations, etc) because capitalists can never be simply trusted to do what's best for anything except their bottom line. That's a fundamental law no different than inertia or gravity in a capitalistic society. That's why regulators exist. Until you regulate it, they will wear their villain badge and rake in the billions. It's easy to be disliked when the topic of your disdain is what makes you filthy rich (in other words, they don't care what you or I think of what they're doing).

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#596

Post by Aurornis »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #571
donmcronald wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It derives an age attribute such as "over 18" from a passport or ID, without disclosing any other information such as the date of birth. How? If it’s analyzes my ID 100% client side I can fake any info I want. If my ID goes to a server, it’s compromised IMO. I think the zero proof systems being touted are like ephemeral messaging in Snapchat. That is, we’re being sold something that’s impossible and it only “works”…

Attestation from government sounds like the ideal solution. This could actually provide _more_ privacy because we can begin using attestation for things we currently use IDs for such as “Has the privilege of driving a car” or “Can purchase alcohol”

Amazing how fast these systems go from "zero knowledge" to "route the request through the government system every time you use your ID"

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#597

Post by fuzzfactor »

Aurornis wrote: post #539
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're understating the US's policy on recklessness. We have "attractive nuisances," which means that if you put a trampoline in your backyard, and a kid passing through sees it, decides to do a sick jump off of it, and breaks their leg, that was partly your fault for having something so awesome that kids would probably like.

> which means that if you put a trampoline in your backyard, and a kid passing through sees it, decides to do a sick jump off of it, and breaks their leg, that was partly your fault for having something so awesome that kids would probably like. That's not exactly accurate. The two key parts of the attractive nuisance law are a failure to secure something combined with the victim being too young to understand the risk…

>put a trampoline in your front yard

This is exactly what one of our neighbors did when I was growing up.

All the kids loved it.

There just weren't very many lawsuits back then like there are now after the number of attorneys proliferated so much.

To be as safe as they could, the parents put the trampoline in a pit where the bouncing surface was at ground level.

If you drove by, you wouldn't even be able to see it, or have any idea that it was there.

Unless there was somebody bouncing at the time.

You should have seen the look on peoples' faces when they drove down our street and saw that for the first time :)

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#598

Post by chrishare »

EmbarrassedHelp wrote: post #498
antitoxic wrote: post #390

I work at a European identity wallet system that uses a zero knowledge proof age identification system. It derives an age attribute such as "over 18" from a passport or ID, without disclosing any other information such as the date of birth. As long as you trust the government that gave out the ID, you can trust the attribute, and anonymously verify somebodies age. I think there are many pros and cons to be said about…

According to the EU Identity Wallet's documentation, the EU's planned system requires highly invasive age verification to obtain 30 single use, easily trackable tokens that expire after 3 months. It also bans jailbreaking/rooting your device, and requires GooglePlay Services/IOS equivalent be installed to "prevent tampering". You have to blindly trust that the tokens will not be tracked, which is a total no-go for pr…

Link?

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#599

Post by chairmansteve »

JohnMakin wrote: post #261

We'll try everything, it seems, other than holding parents accountable for what their children consume. In the United States, you can get in trouble if you recklessly leave around or provide alcohol/guns/cigarettes for a minor to start using, yet somehow, the same social responsibility seems thrown out the window for parents and the web. Yes, children are clever - I was one once. If you want to actually protect child…

"We'll try everything, it seems, other than holding parents accountable for what their children consume".

We'll try anything, it seems, other than hold internet companies accountable for the society destroying shit they publish.

And it's not jusy children who's lives they are destroying.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#600

Post by trinsic2 »

SecretDreams wrote: post #586
EmbarrassedHelp wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Age verification tech companies are lobbying heavily for governments to legally require their services. The proposed "solutions" are about funneling money into the hands of other tech companies and shady groups, while violating user privacy. If anything, we should be banning the collection of any age related information to access social media and more mature content. We need companies to respect privacy, rather than…

If anything, we should be preventing young people from being exposed to the version of the internet that currently exists until the tech companies that made it this way offer a solution. I am all ears if you have an alternative that big tech can implement to ensure this is the case while they are given the task of cleaning up the mess they've made?

Bro the internet was made by everyday people. Corporations just imposed there shit on top of it. Im all for the corporate part going away, but I think its better if we make social media corporations transparent so we can target how they are operating those services. Age gating users is not the answer
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