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We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

theguardian.com

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Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#591

Post by rain_iwakura »

mschuster91 wrote: post #459
tsoukase wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn't want as a prime goal to become world leader. They just want to expand their infrastructure, science, production, everything for their own prosperity. If there is no other competitor left, then world leadership will be a by product. They don't suppress foreign countries for that goal (see military presence, coups and secret diplomatic deals in foreign countries that the US was doing after WWII in order t…

> They don't suppress foreign countries for that goal Oh hell yes they do. Chinese overfishing is wreaking havoc across the planet [1], not just near Asia, but the reach of Chinese fishing fleets goes as far as Africa and South America. In the case of Africa, this has been one of the contributing causes for people to flee to Europe. Then you got the stealing. America certainly isn't innocent either when it comes to I…

you posted an opinion piece by "Director of National Maritime Intelligence Integration Office (NMIO) and Commander, Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI)" (i.e. State Department mouthpiece) and the other source is from 2022, with airport still operating, (no evidence that it belongs to china), directly refuting your own point.

> America certainly isn't innocent either when it comes to IP theft, but China takes that on yet another level

there you go with your bias. https://reason.com/2024/06/02/the-mirage-of-chinas-i-p-theft...

America itself was built on IP theft by the way. https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88...

>Nope. They are just as vile loan sharks as the IMF, some say they go even further [2].

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S246822762...

Chinese have actually been investing into infrastructure and helping build Africa out. What are you smoking? Do you need a reminder who ran Transatlantic Slave Trade and what IMF represents? There are no good guys in the lending world. Are you assigning a moral value to loans and repayments now? If someone gives you money they expect interest. Doesn't matter if they're Chinese or American.

P.S. judging from your other comments, you're European, not American, and so at this point of Trump presidency (and listening to Carney's speech), you should realize that "The West" isn't about moral hegemony. This isn't America good, China bad. It's a calculus of power. Trump just laid that bare by showing that might makes right, which is why he's renegotiating our already dominant position, and showing how this hegemony and loan structure was built. The liberal veneer was there as a pretty varnish. The fact that you're still out here pretending like we're the good guys is strange to me, unless you're one of those NAFO guys that are kind of going extinct because US is screwing itself over by hurting its allies.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#592

Post by ljsprague »

kg wrote: post #166
ljsprague wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They sound like very loyal people who I would love to have as my compatriots.

Loyalty is earned. They don't owe me or you any loyalty if we mistreat them.

There's no mistreatment alleged though: the US is bad because it stopped funding their jobs.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#593

Post by ljsprague »

kettlecorn wrote: post #80
ljsprague wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They sound like very loyal people who I would love to have as my compatriots.

Many of the world's most intelligent and caring people are loyal to values over tribe.

Values don't reproduce; tribes do.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#594

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

ljsprague wrote: post #593
kettlecorn wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the world's most intelligent and caring people are loyal to values over tribe.

Values don't reproduce; tribes do.

tribes don't reproduce; people do.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#595

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #594
ljsprague wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Values don't reproduce; tribes do.

tribes don't reproduce; people do.

Tribes reproduce as the people who make up the tribe reproduce.

Values reproduce as the people who hold them reproduce, plus as others adopt those values, minus as those who hold those values drop them.

But the US was supposed to be a country where values mattered more than tribe. "We hold these truths to be self evident", and all that, and if you accepted the values, you belonged. That was an imperfect ideal, but it was the ideal until rather recently. I'm not sure to what degree it still is.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#596

Post by shiroiuma »

Pooge wrote: post #434
jjmarr wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese is too difficult of a language. I have spent 5 years learning it part-time and have gotten to a level I can understand 30% of a TV show and 20% of a newspaper. Unfortunately it's two different languages and both are unlike almost anywhere else. The spoken language is tonal and the consonants don't easily match English. If I have a heavy English accent, I just don't speak Chinese instead of sounding like a for…

> Meanwhile the written language has almost no correlation with the spoken language. Oh, just like English! /s sorry I'm only half-joking but written English makes no sense

Written English makes plenty of sense, but it's really complicated because you need to know the etymology of the words to understand the logic. It's not just made-up; there's reasons for the "rules" (like why a word is pronounced the way it is, despite the spelling). But new learners don't have time to learn Greek and Latin roots and other such stuff, and under-educated native English speakers won't know much of this stuff either.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#597

Post by Pooge »

shiroiuma wrote: post #596
Pooge wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile the written language has almost no correlation with the spoken language. Oh, just like English! /s sorry I'm only half-joking but written English makes no sense

Written English makes plenty of sense, but it's really complicated because you need to know the etymology of the words to understand the logic. It's not just made-up; there's reasons for the "rules" (like why a word is pronounced the way it is, despite the spelling). But new learners don't have time to learn Greek and Latin roots and other such stuff, and under-educated native English speakers won't know much of this…

The fact is that even native speakers may mispronounce words if it's the first time they say it. For example, words that they encountered in written form only.

Or they write words incorrectly because it doesn't even closely match the pronunciation.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#598

Post by foxglacier »

krastanov wrote: post #577
mr_00ff00 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to know very little about China to think that it is somehow more favorable to foreigners and minorities than the US. What the US does is bad, but somehow Americans think that means everywhere else is better.

I know that China is an authoritarian near-dictatorial country that oppresses minorities and commits cultural genocide. And I am not an American. That does not seem to be all that related to the original post I was answering to. An average person / citizen / visitor has way less to worry about around (trained) Chinese police than they have to worry about around an (gangster) American ICE agent.

You should also know that China doesn't have as much rule of law as America and indeed average people have a lot to worry about around the police, and generally are very careful not to do things that will get them beaten up. But it happens nontheless - violent assaults on street sellers by police, for instance. In China, people are actually scared of the police because the policemen have so much arbitrary power. They're not strictly and fairly enforcing the law at all.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#599

Post by shiroiuma »

Pooge wrote: post #597
shiroiuma wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Written English makes plenty of sense, but it's really complicated because you need to know the etymology of the words to understand the logic. It's not just made-up; there's reasons for the "rules" (like why a word is pronounced the way it is, despite the spelling). But new learners don't have time to learn Greek and Latin roots and other such stuff, and under-educated native English speakers won't know much of this…

The fact is that even native speakers may mispronounce words if it's the first time they say it. For example, words that they encountered in written form only. Or they write words incorrectly because it doesn't even closely match the pronunciation.

Yes, of course. This happens to me too: there's words I've never heard pronounced, so I don't actually know how to pronounce them (though you can usually solve this by using Google Translate's text-to-speech function).

I never said English was a superbly designed language, just that it does make sense when you look at the entire history and etymology. But yeah, it's a heavily-kludged mess, though it is pretty good at being accessible for new learners just because it's flexible and has a relatively simple grammar.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#600

Post by Pooge »

shiroiuma wrote: post #599
Pooge wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact is that even native speakers may mispronounce words if it's the first time they say it. For example, words that they encountered in written form only. Or they write words incorrectly because it doesn't even closely match the pronunciation.

Yes, of course. This happens to me too: there's words I've never heard pronounced, so I don't actually know how to pronounce them (though you can usually solve this by using Google Translate's text-to-speech function). I never said English was a superbly designed language, just that it does make sense when you look at the entire history and etymology. But yeah, it's a heavily-kludged mess, though it is pretty good at…

I'm sure it used to make sense when words when pronounced differently. Pronunciation changed but not the writing. Which means it doesn't make sense at our point in time.
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