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Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

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Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#591

Post by JeremyTheo »

raphman wrote: post #316
JeremyTheo wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know how sketchy it sounds, and it was even documented in DB Navigator. But DB makes this information inaccessible a couple of days later in the app, so there is no way to „proof“ it except asking DB itself.

Just to be sure: your blog post mentions 24.12. 2024 - did you mean 2025? Is this the right connection?: https://bahn.expert/details/NX%2028521/j/20251224-a0049123-9... The RE5 seems to be operated by National Express, not Deutsche Bahn, right? (but DB InfraGo is most probably responsible for the routing)

Yes it is! And yes it was a typo! Thank you for finding the link to it. I was trying to find it before but couldn’t find it in official sources, DB deleted it from the official app. It did not stop at Troisdorf though.

It is operated by National Express, but I guess the routing comes from some other company (likely InfraGo)

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#592

Post by rawgabbit »

wolframhempel wrote: post #516
tdullien wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The privatization of the train system in Germany was a particularly insane disaster that is only now, 30 years later, being undone/repaired. If you look at an org chart of the DB these days, the most fascinating part is that DB consists of almost 600 separate corporate entities that are all supposed to invoice each other. Speaking with insiders, it appears that when the privatization happened, the new corporate struc…

It was a privatization in name only. The German state held 100% of its shares since the beginning. As such, it might have no longer been subject to the state specific demands of hiring etc. - but instead found itself in an uneasy tension as the only supplier of services to an entity that was something between a customer and a shareholder. Which brings up an interesting question: How do you structure something with a…

I believe modern economists are studying how ownership should be assigned. The thinking is that contracts and rules handle the majority of situations but emergencies and edge cases require an owner who has authority and whose interests align with the thing they control. And you want a mechanism to reassign ownership when the previous owner is incompetent.

In the case of a national train system, you may want to create a national entity to develop, coordinate, and make the physical trains and support technologies. You would create regional or metro entities to control the train network for their local area including the train stations. They coordinate with each other via negotiated contracts. Any edge cases or emergency falls under the purview of the owning entity. For example, the national entity controls the switch from diesel locomotives to the newest engine. The local authority is responsible for repairing the lines after a natural disaster.

If an entity is egregiously incompetent or failing, the national regulatory authority, with support of the majority of all the different train entities, takes control and reforms it.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#593

Post by [deleted] »

101008 wrote: post #10

I know the author mentioned this, but I just got nervous imagining this as a tourist who doesn't speak German at all. This shouldn't be like this. Why they don't help at all? It's also funny considering how here in South America we look at Germany trains (and Switzerland trains) as always on time, and the best train system, etc. But I am sure if this happens here it would be on the cover of newspapers.

[deleted]

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#594

Post by nephihaha »

wolvoleo wrote: post #238
rwmj wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it's not safety but money. In the UK, train operators pay station operators a fixed fee to stop. As a result trains can't just stop somewhere randomly (except I hope in an emergency) even if that would benefit many people. All this is, needless to say, very stupid.

I don't think so as in this case Deutsche Bahnn owns both the station and the train. In the UK they've gone a bit crazy with the whole free market thing. Public transport should not be a market. In Germany there's also the issue that the powerful car makers are always lobbying the government to budget cut public transport.

Transport for Wales has nationalised its trains. A lot of the infrastructure is paid for by the state as well.

By the way, I can remember the state run British Rail and that was bad too. Neither nationalisation nor private operators have done well with British trains over the past fifty years.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#595

Post by hexbin010 »

hdgvhicv wrote: post #89
gadders wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends on where you are going. My local commuter link into London is OK and reliable, if expensive. Long range trains from, say, London to Manchester are often overcrowded and ridiculously priced.

I take those long distance trains and it amazes me the choice and how low the cost is. You can choose an empty high speed service in peak time with a 20 minute frequency for a high cost (comparable to flying), you can book ahead for a lower price - especially in non peak services, or you can choose a flexible lower speed (comparable with service in the BR days, 3.5 hours) for far cheaper than it ever was. Season tick…

> Season ticket prices are under 20p/mile into London

False, as per my other comment

I agree with your other points though

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#596

Post by tsimionescu »

locallost wrote: post #324
tsimionescu wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean if you feel kidnapped because your train connection didn't work out It's not "your train connection didn't work out", it's "you were planning to go somewhere, and the train took you somewhere else entirely, much farther away than when you started, and gave you no way out of this, and not even an apology or explanation". This is absolutely comparable to a form of kidnapping.

Yes because after kidnapping you are always allowed to leave the vehicle you were kidnapped with and continue with your day. Sorry, but no.

If you got into an Uber and they took you to some completely different place, many km away from your destination, and didn't let you get out of the vehicle until they got there, would you not say that they kidnapped you? Would you not be tempted to call the police and press charges, even if they did tell you that they would let you go out once they reached their destination?

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#597

Post by nephihaha »

SoftTalker wrote: post #543
i_am_a_peasant wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. don’t remind me. my fiancée and I live in different cities in Germany. the train ride is 5 hours. but it has been 15h in the past just because DB is DB. and the only thing we got for it was like a 10 eur discount voucher. 10 hours of my life partner’s time is worth a lot more than 10 eur. i have cussed them and their mothers countless times, DB is a garbage transportation company owned and ran by garbage people.

Sounds like Amtrak in the US, except here you get no compensation at all. And I've always been told how great the European railroads are.

In some places, European trains are decent. I don't have much experience with US trains other than them having very high steps to get onto.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#598

Post by renewiltord »

To think that, once we complete CA HSR, we too could have experiences like this. In fact, one of the best reasons to get trains in the US is so that we too can end up farther from our destination than when we started.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#599

Post by 3ds »

niemandhier wrote: post #426

It’s a system run at the absolute border of what is possible and that was designed with the “just enough” philosophy in mind. You cannot add a stop if the rails are single track and the next train is just behind you. If you do said train will be delayed, will not be able to switch tracks at its final destination ( since it has a hard slot for that) and errors cascade. It’s the best possible train system, given how li…

Exactly! When you spend billions on car infrastructure but hardly anything on rails, there will be issues.

What people don’t write clickbaity blog posts about is how in general things work very well. I’m currently sitting on a train from Nuremberg to Berlin and it takes less than three hours, it’s on time, quiet and just a good experience. This trip used to take five hours but then the high speed rail track got completed and cut the time by two hours. Wonderful!

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#600

Post by marxisttemp »

wolframhempel wrote: post #516
tdullien wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The privatization of the train system in Germany was a particularly insane disaster that is only now, 30 years later, being undone/repaired. If you look at an org chart of the DB these days, the most fascinating part is that DB consists of almost 600 separate corporate entities that are all supposed to invoice each other. Speaking with insiders, it appears that when the privatization happened, the new corporate struc…

It was a privatization in name only. The German state held 100% of its shares since the beginning. As such, it might have no longer been subject to the state specific demands of hiring etc. - but instead found itself in an uneasy tension as the only supplier of services to an entity that was something between a customer and a shareholder. Which brings up an interesting question: How do you structure something with a…

You can’t. Every attempt at privatizing rail is a failure with worse performance, higher prices, and an inevitable level of special treatment by the state due to the monopolistic utility-like nature of rail infrastructure. Not everything needs to or should be privatized.
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