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Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

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Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#591

Post by antonvs »

dinvlad wrote: post #485
antonvs wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We launch 30k+ VMs a day on GCP, regularly launching hundreds at a time when scheduled jobs are running. That’s one of the most stable aspects of our operation - in the last 5 years I’ve never seen GCP “struggle” with that except during major outages. At the scale of providers like AWS and even the smaller GCP, “hundreds of VMs” is not a large amount.

Not a single VM possible to request on Azure us-east for over a month now though :-(

I was talking about real cloud providers :P

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#592

Post by MonkeyClub »

kikimora wrote: post #491
Yiin wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the argument is that dev with some vibe coding can successfully setup servers that are good enough already for 10x less cost and 95% reliability

This is an extremely bold statement to make. Vibe coding by a non-expert is the best way to introduce hard to find security issues.

Plus that 5% left out is a one in twenty chance that some business critical service may fail when least convenient.

And when it does, the person that vibed it into existence will only have ChatGPT to fall back to, having no personal or organizational experience to rely on.

But they have a 95% chance of getting it right, if they don't panic too much.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#593

Post by davkan »

saurik wrote: post #586
torginus wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that is a casual word in the English language to describe an object with substantial power? If you would suggest a word that would make a better substitute in this case, that could move the conversation forward, and perhaps you could improve the aesthetic quality of posts about leaving the cloud.

Well, I wouldn't say I have a beefy car or a beefy sword: there's some historical bit of linguistic connection that seems to have caused people to describe a server with the adjective "beefy", rather than "powerful", "hefty", "stacked", or... "chonky" ;P. Coming up with some options, I think my favorite might be "cranked"?

I wouldn’t describe a corvette as beefy but I might call its engine beefy and i would definitely call a diesel truck beefy.

I think servers, especially bare metal, are in the category of grunt and raw power. Beefy feels right.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#594

Post by earthnail »

I finally started migrating our app from Heroku to Hetzner. Started by moving Postgres, and boy, what a difference in performance. I pay 1/5th of what I previously paid, and performance is through the roof. Like, as if we had rewritten our Rails app in Rust (metaphorically speaking). I know that in theory you get much more from managed postgres than a simple self-managed server, but I have pgbouncer and Wal-G set up, and it really seems like it's not that hard to manage that instance. Most of all, we were really hitting performance limits on Heroku, not theoretical "what if the server goes down" but real ones that users could tell every day.

Will move the app server itself next (basic Rails). Really wish I had done the move earlier. Hetzner is like cheating for indie devs.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#595

Post by MaKey »

e12e wrote: post #506
baobun wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but I've lived through this too and my conclusion from that is that if you're doing tofu/terraform you're better off not introducing helm at all. Just tf the k8s.

Yes, this is what we do for example for the tailscale operator - but it's tedious to convert yaml to tf - and more importantly: error prone to correctly adapt upstream changes to update deployments as upstream refine their helm/k8s yaml files.

Terraform/OpenTofu is good for infrastructure but it becomes a pain if you use it for k8s deployments. I suggest using GitOps (ArgoCD / flux) for everything inside the cluster and OpenTofu for the cluster itself.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#596

Post by MaKey »

krowek wrote: post #103

I tried my best to start using Hetzner, but they wouldn't let me. I got my account validation rejected despite having everything "in norm" and tried 3 times, they wouldn't give me a reason why it ended up rejected. I think it's better that way, I wouldn't like to get the surprise my account was terminated at some point after that.

They are pretty strict with account sign-ups because they are so cheap, which attracts abuse. Unfortunately this prevents some regular sign-ups too. You could try Netcup, I've also had a good experience with them.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#598

Post by Samon »

jiggawatts wrote: post #574
bluedino wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At $dayjob the time required to spin up a single cloud VM is now measured in years. We have a Service Now ticket that you can complete that spins the server up at completion. Kind of an easy way to do it.

Then you end up with too-large servers all over the place with no rhyme or reason, burning through your opex budget. Also, what network does the VM land in? With what firewall rules? What software will it be running? Exposed to the Internet? Updated regularly? Backed up? Scanned for malware or vulnerabilities? Etc… Do you expect every Tom, Dick, and Harry to know the answers to these questions when they “just” want a…

Not GP, but at my previous job we had something very similar. The form did offer options for a handful of variables (on-prem VMware vs EC2, vCPU, RAM, disk, OS/template, administrators, etc), but once submitted, the ticket went to the cloud/architecture team for review, who could adjust the inputted selections as well as configure things like networks, firewall rules, security groups, etc. Once approved, the automated workflow provisioned the server(s), firewall rules, security groups, etc and sent the details to the requestor.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#599

Post by PeterStuer »

OutOfHere wrote: post #527
PeterStuer wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious: Was this a colo, dedicated server, managed server or VPS? And since you mention "CPU at nearly 100% for about two months", was this potentially crypto mining?

There was no crypto mining involved whatsoever. There was some crypto analysis involved, among unrelated other analyses, but no mining. If you think about it, Hetzner had to be spying on my activities in very close detail to see what I am doing. Such unnecessary spying (without a court order) alone should detract anyone from using them. Assuming they copied my disk image and subjected it to a scan, it's very possible…

Hetzner just like every major other server/cloud rental out their does prohibit crypto related activities in their products. This is not limited to "mining".

They do not need to access you disk to determine that. They can just observe behavioural patterns and use heuristics. E.g. 24/7 100% cpu, low data, port traffic on typical crypto related protocols to known crypto endpoints will raise red flags.

They can terminate you for any or no reason with 30 days notice, and terminate service immediately for suspected abuse or non compliance.

Seems this already happened twice to you. You can try any non specialized cloud or server renting provider, and the result will be the same.

The type of server, dedicated vs shared, very much does matter. If you grab a shared resource for 100%, you deny all other shared users their usage opportunity. Bursting upto 100% occasionally is very different from 100% sustained. You know this very well, and you are reasoning from a bad faith pov. Using a shared resource 100% by definition makes it not shared.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#600

Post by vidarh »

OutOfHere wrote: post #575
vidarh wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I notice you've avoided addressing the issue of whether you were on a shared instance, where the point very much is that they're not meant for workloards that will pin the resources on an ongoing basis. On the dedicated servers they won't know whether you max it out or not. That you're being evasive makes it very much sound like you used them in ways you should have expected would be treated accordingly. If you've ru…

I have not run into this multiple times. You said that, not me. I said something different. Hetzner is the only cloud provider that cut me off. The other provider was not a cloud vendor. Even if it was a shared instance, people don't hire a 48 core server just to use 1 or 2 cores. It makes no sense to rent out a big shared server and then expect users to not use it. Someone would rent it out only if they have exhaust…

> I have not run into this multiple times. You said that, not me. I said something different. Hetzner is the only cloud provider that cut me off. The other provider was not a cloud vendor.

So, you have been cut off multiple times.

> Even if it was a shared instance, people don't hire a 48 core server just to use 1 or 2 cores.

No, but that is also not what is happening.

> Something tells me that your idea of computing is communist computing, where someone shouldn't use too much even when paying for it.

No, my idea of it is that Hetzner operates in a capitalist economy where they at their sole discretion are free to choose who they want to do business with.

If you don't like that, then clearly you don't like a free market model. That's fine. But this is a direct consequence of Hetzner being free to choose not to want your business.

That you resort to implying this is down to politics makes it clear you're not prepared to engage with this in good faith.

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