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Synology reverses policy banning third-party HDDs

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Re: Synology reverses policy banning third-party HDDs

#591
post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then people buy Intel "NUCs" where the power adapter is larger than the computer box... You say that like it’s a mystery why people by then but NUCs are fantastic little PCs. The power adapter is just hidden under the desk whereas the NUC is sat on the desk (or behind the monitor/TV). It’s the same as with Mac Minis and Apple TV. And other devices of that ilk.

Both the Mac Mini and the Apple TV use internal power supplies.

Ah yes, of course they do. Doh! Thanks for the correction

Re: Synology reverses policy banning third-party HDDs

#593
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same - replaced my smaller Synology with a UGREEN, put TrueNAS on it first thing, runs great. The HDD thing was only the final nail in the coffin, but before that, there were plenty of ridiculous "upgrades" that made products worse than in the previous generation. Literally removing features, or continuing to use the same outdated hardware. That's what companies do that don't think they have competition.

ASUSTOR's latest gen hardware is ridiculous. Ryzen processors, upgradeable ECC RAM, 4xHDD + 4xNVMe, 10GbE plus a PCIe slot... You need to add an external GPU for TrueNAS installation, but they have an official video for that. On top of that, they connected the flash which stores the original firmware to its own USB port, and you can disable it. Preventing both interference and protecting the firmware from accidental…

Same, but I went with minisforum (another well known mini-pc brand): https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-n5-us

Installed unraid on it and it's been working great. So long, Synology.

Re: Synology reverses policy banning third-party HDDs

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, not really. They already have a compatibility page of known-good drives and they recommend people stick to it. They could also have an incompatibility list showing known-bad drives, and alerting if you install one of them. If I put junk tires on my Toyota, I don’t blame Toyota. But if Toyota used that as an excuse to make it impossible to use third party tires, I guarantee you my next car purchase wouldn’t have…

Your Toyota analogy doesn't hold up. If a customer puts SMR into their NAS, they are absolutely going to call Synology and complain. And they are going to have to re-explain this over and over because most people don't understand nascent HDD writing modes the way they do a vehicle tire. Even then, and appropriate analogy would be a tire that is cheap and new but refuses to spin above 25mph vehicle speed.

All Synology has to do is pop up a dialog box: "Warning: Bad idea. Don't blame us if this drive ruins your life. "

That's all they had to do.

Re: Synology reverses policy banning third-party HDDs

#595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is interesting here is that Synology leadership is quite technical and there was no acquisition or other big event that I am aware of that resulted in this strategy. It was a complete own goal and as predictable as could be. Synology apparently wasn't aware of what their brand values were as perceived by their loyal customers and that's the kind of move you make at your peril. I'll be surprised if they survive t…

> What is interesting here is that Synology leadership is quite technical They probably used bad data to make the decision. They probably thought they had accurate and high quality information that led them to believe nobody cared about this. My guess is they had some metric like "Only 0.0001% of customers use custom drives" or similar. They did the cost-benefit analysis of losing all those customers and a little bit…

Technical leadership is no different than any other leadership. Data is used to justify a decision that's already been made, not make the decision.

Re: Synology reverses policy banning third-party HDDs

#596

If you're looking for a really good alternative: Supermicro makes large chassis that will hold a fair number of drives (I have one that will take drives). They're usually sold cheap on ebay and other such sites when they're written off. If you're willing to replace a couple of fans and do your own software installation they're unbeatable for value-for-money, and they last just about forever. I've still got two Synolo…

How's the power consumption? Everytime I look at used server deals on ebay that seem too good to be true, the hidden cost is usually power. It's fairly normal for these systems to consume hundreds of watts idle, and $1/watt/year is a decent rule of thumb in the US (but much more in places like CA). And that’s not factoring in running the AC more if you’re in a hotter climate.

I’m looking at a NAS build myself and am leaning toward a consumer mobo and an older Intel, like maybe a 9th gen i5. 6 SATA ports is pretty standard, and three mirrored 20 TB pairs is a lot of storage for most folks. Boot drive could be a small NVME.

Re: Synology reverses policy banning third-party HDDs

#597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think more employee ownership and control, a "seat at the table," would've prevented technically competent leadership from testing customer hostile business decisions? > Regarding employee morale: It was very depressing for me during this period to open Hacker News and see threads complaining about my employer. I can confirm that it spurred a job search for me. Indeed. I believe that if you're a shareholder em…

> " Do you think more employee ownership and control, a "seat at the table," would've prevented technically competent leadership from testing customer hostile business decisions? " Employee control doesn't reduce investor pressure for increased profitability. Employee ownership just means that the employees are now the ones exerting the investor pressure and if anyone thinks employees will be willing to take less tot…

Careful about reading too much into "employee ownership". It can be and at least sometimes (I suspect usually, at least in the US) is structured such that it doesn't really work the way you might think.

1) The shares can be non-voting shares. LOL.

2) Only a relatively small portion of the overall "pie" has to go to employees for them to be able to say they're "employee owned". There can still be non-employee owners involved to a large degree.

3) That slice of the pie will tend to be weighted so heavily toward those near the top of the org chart that in practice it may be more like "upper-management owned" anyway.

I think the main reasons companies in the US choose it are:

1) Propaganda. "You're an owner!" It's a way to trick unwise employees into working harder for (effectively) nothing extra, and even into exhorting others to do the same.

2) Probably some kind of tax-avoidance reasons.

3) As a vehicle for a kind of stock-compensation system without having to take the company public or do occasional odd maneuvers with investors for that stock to be de facto liquid for employees.

IME there's zero percent more meaningful "ownership" involved than, say, Google folks who receive stock as part of their comp (and nobody calls Google "employee owned"). It's a misleading name for the structure.

Re: Synology reverses policy banning third-party HDDs

#598
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if their brand is that great. I have been using synology NAS for about 15 years. It is very solid and easy to use, but the hardware is expensive, non customizable, the underlying OS is based on an ancient linux kernel. I have now run into the volume size limits (200TB) and disk sizes keep increasing exponentially. And they don’t support enterprise SSDs (SAS/U.2). So in my mind I was already thinking of m…

Yeah, just put together a TrueNAS system. Mine has been running for 10 years. Drive replacements and upgrades are so easy with ZFS.

I have been running TrueNAS (was FreeNAS) for ~10 years now and never had issues. There is the risk that TrueNAS gets rug pulled and no longer is free for non commercial use, but so far it has been fine.

Re: Synology reverses policy banning third-party HDDs

#599
post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use a couple of magnetic disks, the pi is fast enough. The disks will be the bottleneck. There are sata cards that allow up to four magnetic disks, and where you power that card which in turn powers the pi. It's very doable. It's of course more work to set up than synology, and if you want a neat box, you have to figure that out yourself

You'd be surprised. A single spinning rust drive can hit 200MBps for sequential access, so that's plenty to saturate its 1Gbps NIC. However, in my experience with a Pi 4, the issue is encryption. The CPU simply isn't fast enough for 1Gbps of AES! Want to use HTTPS or SSH? You're capped at ~50Mbps by default, and can get it up to a few hundred Mbps by forcing the use of chacha20-poly1305. Want to add full-disk encrypt…

The Pi 5 is working well for me with encryption. I tried dding a cold file to /dev/null now and got

1293685061 bytes (1.3 GB, 1.2 GiB) copied, 5.14336 s, 252 MB/s

which is good enough for me on magnetic disks

It apparently hit 387MBps for a few hours while running the montly raid scrub. I run luks on top of mdraid though so the raid scrub doesn't have to decrypt anything.

scp to write to the encrypted disk seems to get me something in the 60 - 100MB/s range.

Re: Synology reverses policy banning third-party HDDs

#600
It's nice to see this. Too bad they lost me as a customer. I was in the market for a NAS for my photography business and was primarily considering one of Synology's 4 bay products, but saw they'd just made this change so I went elsewhere. I've made my purchase and it wasn't Synology... and I won't need another NAS for years to come. Oh well.
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