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Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

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Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#591
post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is more likely is the processors made the decision themselves If you think that, please explain how the payment processors didn't say anything since Valve started selling adult games in 2018... and only a few days after Collective Shout specifically started targeting MasterCard and Visa (not PayPal or Paysafe)... the payment processors used by Valve cited MasterCard's rules to Valve? It's also MasterCard that…

Mastercard doesn't care. Payment processors that handle adult material exist but they charge a premium rate. These companies could switch to CCBill as quick as they could code it up. Exactly the same as what OnlyFans did. They would have to explain to their entire customer base across the board why they have to charge more though. Also, look at https://www.collectiveshout.org/open-letter-to-payment-proce... They abso…

> They absolutely targeted paysafe and paypall

OK, I read the link. They targeted Paysafe and PayPal AND VISA AND MASTERCARD AND DISCOVER AND JCB. All of them, in no particular order. Why did you not mention those?

Why are Valve's and Itch's payment processors, instead of citing their own policies, citing MasterCard's policies?

If "MasterCard doesn't care" then section 5.12.7 "Illegal or Brand-damaging Transactions" of MasterCard's rules, that specifically lists out transactions MasterCard prohibit processors from performing, specifically citing the percieved risk to MasterCard's brand... that's a really weird way for MasterCard to say they "don't care" about those exact sorts of transactions, which Valve's payment processors have been facilitating for Valve since 2018... until now, when a media campaign has put them and MasterCard, Visa, Discover and JCB on blast.

If MasterCard "doesn't care", let them show it by completely removing section 5.12.17 of their own rules. They made those rules, and those rules say they care, no matter how much you say they don't.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#592
post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mastercard doesn't care. Payment processors that handle adult material exist but they charge a premium rate. These companies could switch to CCBill as quick as they could code it up. Exactly the same as what OnlyFans did. They would have to explain to their entire customer base across the board why they have to charge more though. Also, look at https://www.collectiveshout.org/open-letter-to-payment-proce... They abso…

> They absolutely targeted paysafe and paypall OK, I read the link. They targeted Paysafe and PayPal AND VISA AND MASTERCARD AND DISCOVER AND JCB. All of them, in no particular order. Why did you not mention those? Why are Valve's and Itch's payment processors, instead of citing their own policies, citing MasterCard's policies? If "MasterCard doesn't care" then section 5.12.7 "Illegal or Brand-damaging Transactions"…

Ok, I'll assume good faith and answer that. I didn't mention those because you weren't questioning them. I feel that is kind of obvious.

>(not PayPal or Paysafe)...

As to paypal's policy...

https://www.paypal.com/us/cshelp/article/what-is-paypal%E2%8...

>We don't permit PayPal account holders to buy or sell: Sexually oriented digital goods or content delivered through a digital medium. Examples of digital goods include downloadable pictures or videos and website subscriptions.

Yeah it's a good question, why would they cite mastercard instead of their own policy?

It's entirely anecdotal, but in my 10 years of experience dealing with a multitude of processors and payment gateways... that's what processors do. Their very first instinct is to make things someone else's problem. With maybe the exception of First Data, this has held up consistently for me. Of course a lot of our high dollar business was through First Data so who knows what other people's experience is.

You are still completely avoiding the fact that processors that can handle this stuff exist. Sure Mastercard should probably change their rule, but that isn't going to change the situation.

That is why Itch is looking at their options:

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/itchio-are-seeking-out-new-...

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#593
post #20

I feel like nobody cares really and none of the companies care, but are all worried because of the massive stranglehold 2 players have (and realistically each has almost entire control). Mastercard don't care you want porn, or games, or whatever. Neither does VISA. They like money. They want money and want people to move their money so they can siphon off some of it for their own pockets. Almost nobody is going to av…

For a while my old bank would block all Steam payments on both debit and credit - calling them confirmed that this was their new policy. I swiftly closed the account and moved to a competitor so I could spend my money again.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#594
post #586
post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see why "asking for less regulation" concerns you. Because the "less regulation" is in response to the EU saying you can't have algorithms making life or death decisions if they can't be explained and can't be escalated to a human. People are literally asking for companies to be able to shrug behind "computer says no" with no recourse. We have the UK Post Office scandal for a closer to home example on why t…

> Along with migration, it's probably the two most discussed topics. Funnily for it too, everyone says "nobody cares", yet it's literally among the most discussed things. Its disscussed here, still nobody is acting. This is a bubble. > I get what you're saying, and there's a point at which I would agree; but I also fully consider that allowing companies to let people die and hide behind "The Algorithm" is something s…

> Its disscussed here, still nobody is acting

No, it's discussed everywhere, at the EU and the local level. There has been plenty of action at various levels (like in France, under Macron first as minister of the economy and later president; and he's been decried and criticised a lot, but has also gotten a ton of reforms through).

> This sentence is fundamentally wrong, no one is dying. And for me, it perfectly sums up the issues we're discussing.

That's the point though. Literally the main thing the law does is that if the AI can make decision that can result in deaths, there should be a human escalation and its decision making should be explainable. That's it. If that's too much burden, something is wrong.

> Or even worse, deciding when the problem does not yet exist. Or the technology is still in its early stages. Like AI

But the problem already exists, again, cf. United Healthcare Group in the US. We know they're killing people and hiding behind a well known faulty "AI". We don't want that shit in the EU.

> I don't know if you are for or against nuclear power. I am quite pro nuclear power. But everyone knows about the European Pressurized Reactor (EPR) project, it is a failure in terms of costs and bureaucracy

If you're pro nuclear, you should know what the real problems with EPR are. The main are failures at EDF with the quality of their work, due to lack of qualified personnel, like welders. This has been well documented for Flamanville and Hinkley Point, and EDF has even written extensively about all the lessons learned from those disasters that have been incorporated. They even flat out say that Flamanville has allowed them to build industrial capacity and human know how to be able to build the next ones.

Do you have anything to back your claim that somehow bureaucracy is to blame? EDF are a state owned company, but I'm pretty sure that the British wouldn't stop yapping around if EDF were bungling Hinkley Point because of French/EU bureaucracy. There should be at least as much material on it as there are about the quality control issues, right?

> The same EPR reactors built in China have low costs and short construction times (I am referring to the Taishan Nuclear Power Plant). The problem is exclusively European.

Yes, because we stopped building reactors for decades, and nobody is around that knows the intricacies of that. Hence the investment in EPR, to improve on the failures at Flamanville, Hinkley Point, Olkiluoto, and be able to reliably deliver EPR reactors with predictable costs.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The meaning of words can change over time and across space. The meaning of left and right in US politics encompasses more topics than the matter of who may legally own things. Pretending that those referred to as left and right are all the same because the only true scottsman is Karl Marx is silly.

GP was saying that there are hardly far left politicians, saying that the few that exist are Sanders/AOC/DSA. I was just pointing out that even these are not actual socialists, they're Democratic Socialists of the stripe you find in the mainstream in a lot of staunchly capitalist European nations. There are definitely zero literal far-left politicians, objectively speaking. Socialist/social democrat are two related b…

Yes - the Overton window in the US has shifted so far right that a Nazi salute is more or less mainstream, whereas democratic socialists like Sanders/AOC are now "far left". And judges who dare block Trump's actions are, of course, "radical left lunatics" (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/federal-judge...).

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#596
post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless there is actual real-word harm to someone (which is hard to imagine happening from a video game), no, I don't agree with you. What your kids are exposed to is your responsibility. Don't burden the rest of society because you can't be bothered to set your own boundaries.

Removing incest games is not a burden to society

> Removing incest games is not a burden to society

It is to those who enjoy playing them.

Are you suggesting that playing a game involving incest is somehow unacceptable, while a game with graphic murder is fine? It's a strange moral line to draw, and despite what you may think, your views are not shared by everyone.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

James Damore. *Skud incoming* ← and that is exactly what destroying a life means. Criticizing to no end while the guy wrote a perfectly scientific paper, to the point that he cannot work with his potential.

He immediately gained a platform to try to become a right-wing talking head, an exposure opportunity most people never get, and despite fumbling that has been gainfully employed ever since leaving Google.

Is that a destroyed life? It seems incredibly few people have ever been actually "canceled" in the life-destroying way the right-wing claims to be happening everywhere. Louis CK famously assaulted women and won a Grammy while supposedly being cancelled.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of problem that Bitcoin was designed to solve.

It might have been but it is very much not. It's non fungible and transparent resulting in coins, wallets and transactions getting easily traced and blacklisted meaning they can be put into a limbo where nobody is willing to accept them anymore burning there value. The actual solution would be a fungible and private coin like monero where any of that is impossible by design.

Yes, I agree that Monero is likely a better option. I am also a big fan of Nano because of its instant transactions and zero transaction fees. However it has the same privacy problem as Bitcoin. It would be interesting to see a hybrid of Nano and Monero.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#599
post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The far right don’t seem to want to censor those two people in particular, no.

Precisely. It's the far left who wants people censored.

I said “those two people in particular” for a reason.

There are plenty of right wing people arguing that sharing certain information (e.g. legal advice for unsanctioned immigrants) should be illegal on the basis that it is “assisting criminals”.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amendment is about laws, not execution. As long as we're not interpreting the amendment literally and trying to infer its spirit at all, the equivalent in this case is that the executive branch should not have the power to legally censor people or companies at all, as opposed to merely not using that power.

Not sure what your point is. Mine from the beginning is there is no constitutional issue like free speech here as the government is not coercing Mastercard or Visa. There are a lot of other valid complaints and arguments but free speech is not one.

I'm saying that Mastercard/Visa being able to do this on their own is one half of a free speech issue. It's not a free speech issue of its own, but it creates a free speech issue when combined with them being vulnerable to government pressure.

Imagine that the government instituted a private organization that had the power to cripple any business, with no recourse, and had control over it. The first amendment does not literally prohibit this, yet this would have clearly been a violation of the first amendment in spirit.

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