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The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

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Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#591

Post by Earw0rm »

leoedin wrote: post #174
Earw0rm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memory loss and survivor bias. There was mountains of tacky, throwaway crap produced in the 80s. Guess what, we've thrown it all away. Quality lasts. And don't even get me started on the food. A lot of tin cans. Desserts that you reconstituted from powder in a packet. The list goes on.

Food is way better now than it was in the 90s. Every supermarket has refrigerated ready meals which are actually pretty healthy. Here in the UK, the quality of food in cafes (at least in the major cities) is far better than it was when I was a kid.

This. Every once in a while I end up somewhere that the revolution in food has somehow bypassed, and what would have been acceptable standard in the 90s is just _bad_ now.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#592

Post by _DeadFred_ »

makeitdouble wrote: post #479
calrain wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has their own way of measuring quality. Mine is that a Billy bookcase that I bought from Ikea 25 years ago is must stronger and more stable than a Billy bookcase I bought from Ikea 5 years ago. And, when looking at what Ikea is selling in 2025 as a Billy bookcase, it's worse yet again. But, with the cost of living increasing, companies have to cut corners to keep pricing down. I wonder where the inflection p…

You could have bought a Besta or Hemmes bookshelf, accounting for inflation it would be closer in price to the Billy you bought 25 years ago. Assuming a product introduced 25 years ago has exactly the same role in the lineup today sounds crazy to me TBH.

Isn't that the point though?

Quality of the basic model Maytag washer I bought 25 years ago versus one today. Quality of a Reese's cup I bought 25 years ago versus one today. Quality of Levi's I bought 25 years ago versus a pair today. Quality of the Billy that I bought 25 years ago versus today.

Quality of the Billy HAS declined.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#593

Post by cgannett »

WalterBright wrote: post #543
klik99 wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what I came to say - growth as the primary goal DOES create innovation, until innovation in that field yields diminishing returns or bottoms out completely, then it creates shittier and shittier product. The entire American version of capitalism is built around growth as the primary goal, which did great things, but now (unequally, some sectors are still innovating) is creating more and more shitty th…

Do socialist economies produce superior products?

literally proving his point with this question

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#594

Post by terminalshort »

simianparrot wrote: post #490
terminalshort wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I don't want the equivalent service. I want the cheapest ticket possible to get me from A to B. And apparently most people agree with me, or that's not what they would be selling. This is the opposite of a problem.

That’s why there’s now a broader quality spectrum of plane tickets. I travel seldomly, but when I do I tend to buy business class, because I value the comfort of the journey more than the frequency of journeys. But most other people, including you, have other priorities. Which is why at least in this example I think it’s a market working well based on supply and demand.

Yeah, I agree, but what's the difference between that and any other product?

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#595

Post by rizs12 »

panick21_ wrote: post #87
djfivyvusn wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced the widening access to American consumerism is a moral win. The amount of fossil fuels we're dependent on as a species is obscene. I worry for our children. There is no offramp, only growth.

This is one of these philosophies that I hate more then almost any other. The idea that is bad that poor Indian and Chinese people now have access to anything from clean water to planes is absurd. You can sit there in your luxury house and cry about consumer culture but for millions of people its basic stuff that they have access to for the first time. And in Europe, despite increasing quality of live, both total ene…

Lmao how can you say 'poor Indian and Chinese people' in the same sentence? China is a first world country

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#596

Post by hilux »

hliyan wrote: post #316
layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

Here's how I see it: in the absence of growth in market share or cost-reducing innovation, the only remaining strategy for profit maximization is the delivering of progressively lower quality products for progressively higher prices. This obviously destroys the brand over time, but brands can be recycled/reinvented. A purely rational and self-interested (i.e. unencumbered by moral sentiment or empathy) economic agent…

My first reaction: beautifully thought through and expressed!

Upon reflection: as products become commodities, isn't the brand the most valuable thing, and the most expensive to reproduce?

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#597

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

fidotron wrote: post #348
layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

> Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. Yes, many people confuse technological development with quality improvements. Technology can improve quality, but it can also be used in other ways. My personal view is the west, especially North America, never recovered from the oil crisis of the early 1970s. Prior to that energy was almost seen as disposable, at least compared…

> with the result that all sorts of objects were radically heavier than their newer equivalents

except for the most energy consuming and oil dependent objects of all: cars. curious, eh?

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#598

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

jonplackett wrote: post #233
layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

Isn’t this all just Late Stage Calitalsm? I don’t think it’s ‘efficiency’ in the same way spaceX is run. Yeah they cut costs, but they got better quality results. With clothes / appliances etc we have reduced quality at our expense - while the companies doing it make more money than ever.

> Isn’t this all just Late Stage Calitalsm?

You know this phrase originated in the 1930s or early 1940s, yes?

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#599

Post by rizs12 »

mandmandam wrote: post #585
panick21_ wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of these philosophies that I hate more then almost any other. The idea that is bad that poor Indian and Chinese people now have access to anything from clean water to planes is absurd. You can sit there in your luxury house and cry about consumer culture but for millions of people its basic stuff that they have access to for the first time. And in Europe, despite increasing quality of live, both total ene…

You're giving a very poor reading of OP's argument, first of all. Jumping to the conclusion that they don't want Chinese people to have clean water is downright bad faith. Second, "continued growth is good" is a hell of a thing to say on a planet with finite resources. There's a limit! And if you expand your worldview to include other life on this planet and not just society then we've pushed far beyond what's wise a…

China is a developed country! This dialogue about Chinese people and clean water is bizarre

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#600

Post by hilux »

Ygg2 wrote: post #368
hliyan wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's how I see it: in the absence of growth in market share or cost-reducing innovation, the only remaining strategy for profit maximization is the delivering of progressively lower quality products for progressively higher prices. This obviously destroys the brand over time, but brands can be recycled/reinvented. A purely rational and self-interested (i.e. unencumbered by moral sentiment or empathy) economic agent…

Then from a purely rational and self-interested citizenry would hold any economic agents on the hook for future cleanups of land, water or air.

I like the idea, but "purely rational citizenry" is a theoretical construct.

And even if they/we were purely rational, there's the intractable problem of measuring the cost of future cleanups stretching into forever.

Plus the danger (certainty) of corporations paying out their current executives and then declaring bankruptcy.

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