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Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

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Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#591

Post by mihaaly »

_benton wrote: post #55

This is probably a controversial opinion but I actually use my iPhone because it's locked down with a curated app marketplace and secure payment system. I don't want alternative payment methods or app stores. So I find it distasteful that other companies are seeking to control Apple's product design through the legal system. They're essentially trying to make it impossible to purchase a product I want, which is more…

iPhone's other aspects would still remain comfortably locked down and strictly controlled for you by them if there was the opt in for those interested to have alternative ways of paying for subscriptions.

I could hardly believe you only pay through Apple for everything, I mean everything, as THE trustful, others are not trusted, not using other safe payment methods for some products due to security concerns. Not only Apple is secure in this regard.

As there are opt ins on iPhone for so many highly unsecure matters, you could share the most sensitive data with the individual apps with a flick if you wish (sharing personal and very sensitive data, sometimes personal data of others without their consent, like contacts) it is very hard to understand why this particular opt in is ringing your alarm bells of security irrevocably lost and get locked out completely ("impossible to purchase product") that hard....

You can have your choice of not choosing still, while Apple's product design would otherwise remain intact in its current form. Your arguments are very inconsistent.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#592

Post by realusername »

reginald78 wrote: post #574
immibis wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Safari skins any better? If they opened it, you could run Firefox.

In practice I think he is right unfortunately. Most people would just run Chrome and more websites would require Chrome since they could just tell Apple users to deal with it, making the mono-culture even worse.

Less sites would do this is Safari wasn't the last non evergreen browser lagging behind everybody else.

Maybe the answer from Apple should be to improve Safari instead of restricting competition.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#593

Post by owebmaster »

gilfoy wrote: post #462
lrvick wrote: post #351

I detest Apple and would happily switch to a timeline where they never existed. That said, I do not think this is the way to fight them. Just do not make apps for iPhone, or pass the 30% Apple tax to the Apple fanboys. They enjoy being submissive to walled garden overlords and paying for the privilege, so give them what they want. These are perfectly valid options. Create value for more open ecosystems if you want to…

Yeah, I’d probably pay $1.30 instead of $1 for subscriptions just to have them all in one single view where I can cancel them without jumping through hoops.

what about $130 instead of $100?

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#594

Post by al_borland »

Cyph0n wrote: post #590
al_borland wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the issue has never been about the 30%, it’s about the closed platform? What if the App Store was free, would people still have an issue, because Apple is controlling the platform and software distribution? If so, why keep going after the 30% fee? It just seems like a convenient headline to use for the attacks. Valve also makes the Steam Deck. In that case they do own the platform, but if the user wants they can i…

> So the issue has never been about the 30%, it’s about the closed platform? No, the issue is that they have both a 30% cut of every software sale and a closed platform. Steam has a 30% cut, but not a closed platform, hence the bad analogy. Not sure why you're bringing the Steam Deck into this discussion. Is the only way to play Steam games via Deck? No, so it's completely irrelevant.

> Is the only way to play Steam games via Deck? No, so it's completely irrelevant.

Apple has more open platforms as well, macOS.

Paying through Apple is also not the only way to pay for Proton. I'm a Proton subscriber, and have an iPhone. I paid for Proton through their website and Apple didn't see a dime, but I still use Proton Mail on my iPhone.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#595

Post by jajuuka »

davidjade wrote: post #528
spogbiper wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if all you want is for your apps to come from Apple's store and your payments to go through Apple's system, you would simply continue to use only those options and allowing other people to have other options would not impact you. what you actually want is to force all developers to use Apple's distribution and payment systems, so that you can have every app and service from any provider delivered via your chosen mech…

Except, what happens when apps get removed from the iOS App Store and moved to another store for distribution? If people want to continue or need to use those apps then they would have to use these other app stores. What if those apps moved to other stores so they can skirt Apple's review and other consumer-friendly restrictions? How is that better for consumers that use Facebook, Insta, etc... for them to have apps…

If you can only attract good apps by making yourself the only option then your platform is bad. If Apple can't compete in the market they are doing a bad job.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#596

Post by jajuuka »

_benton wrote: post #55

This is probably a controversial opinion but I actually use my iPhone because it's locked down with a curated app marketplace and secure payment system. I don't want alternative payment methods or app stores. So I find it distasteful that other companies are seeking to control Apple's product design through the legal system. They're essentially trying to make it impossible to purchase a product I want, which is more…

This is how you know Apple's marketing is effective. When users think they have a sense of security by using Apple's apps and apps on Apple's store and advocate against competition against Apple.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#597

Post by BlueTemplar »

parineum wrote: post #512
onion2k wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that point consumers would be free to make a choice to switch away from Apple if they value their privacy enough. The problem right now is that Apple is 'abusing' the fact that privacy-aware consumers are drawn to their platform to charge onerous fees to app developers. They're leveraging their (de facto) monopoly on high-end mobile privacy-aware devices to restrict competition in mobile app fee charging. It's tha…

> They're leveraging their (de facto) monopoly If it's necessary to put a qualifier on the word "monopoly", it's a great indication that it's not a monopoly.

This word is not used in the real world anyway. And depending on the jurisdiction, there often isn't even a minimum 50% market share to qualify.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#598

Post by fsflover »

_benton wrote: post #108
McDyver wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not controversial, you can still have your walled garden as-is. The point of this is so that there is the possibility of escaping that walled garden, arguably welcoming more users into the ecosystem. Nothing would change for you. Just like android users can keep using all things Google, they have the possibility of installing apps from other sources.

Except implementing the functionality to optionally open up your device to the world inherently makes it less secure. I now have no ability to purchase the phone that I want. It's actually decreasing consumer choice.

> implementing the functionality to optionally open up your device to the world inherently makes it less secure

Are you saying that Qubes OS is less secure than iOS?

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#599

Post by jajuuka »

bitpush wrote: post #54
BowBun wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think any big tech company has ever done anything as evil and predatory Don't you think this is _maybe_ an overstatement? I was annoyed about this for years but reading your take is borderline satirical.

From the lawsuit > For example, when a user purchases an iPhone, the user is steered to use Apple’s default email product, Apple Mail. It is only through a complex labyrinth of settings that a user can change her default email application away from the Apple “Mail” application towards an alternative like Gmail (Google) or Proton Mail. > At least for mail a user can in theory modify the default setting. On the calenda…

I'm just baffled how if we look at Microsoft or Google everyone agrees that the tyranny of the default is a problem. Then it comes to Apple and we get statements like "no, I love that I have no choice." It's frustrating.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#600

Post by BlueTemplar »

DidYaWipe wrote: post #556
solarexplorer wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are the gatekeeper to one thing: their own app store. They also control the OS and don't allow side-loading or other app stores (without putting absurd obstacles in the way) So in the end they completely control the devices they sell.

So what? So does every game-console manufacturer. Buy a different one.

The difference is that we can easily try to pretend that game consoles are not general purpose computers. And doing so is not going to cause issues to the fabric of the society.
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