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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#591

Post by foobarian »

tlogan wrote: post #577

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted. Reality check: - In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000 - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This…

Not to mention how much more functionality present day cars have. (mentioned in a couple comments elsewhere, but things like airbags/backup cameras/other sensors etc).

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#592

Post by Retric »

Ray20 wrote: post #499
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-road vehicles are classified as non-passenger automobiles with everything that entails, notably much less stringent emission standards) and made the small cars unprofitable to make in comparison. This has become the irrelevant part because "does it have an electric motor in the powertrain" has become more imp…

>People who can do the math realize that paying more up front for a hybrid or full electric is paying less long-term. Can they? In long term maintainability decides. And hybrids usually has it with maintainability pretty bad. Large area of potential breaking, expansive spare parts usually with strong vendor-lock. Hybrids are very costly in maintainability, even if you are privileged elite that buys hybrid and in two…

That’s not been my experience. Hybrids have several major advantages on the maintenance side. Regenerative braking means brakes need to be replaced far less often and keeping the engine off so frequently means it gets far less ware in city driving.

Electric motors outlast the vehicle, and significant battery degradation only results in slightly worse fuel economy.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#593

Post by kayodelycaon »

Ray20 wrote: post #499
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-road vehicles are classified as non-passenger automobiles with everything that entails, notably much less stringent emission standards) and made the small cars unprofitable to make in comparison. This has become the irrelevant part because "does it have an electric motor in the powertrain" has become more imp…

>People who can do the math realize that paying more up front for a hybrid or full electric is paying less long-term. Can they? In long term maintainability decides. And hybrids usually has it with maintainability pretty bad. Large area of potential breaking, expansive spare parts usually with strong vendor-lock. Hybrids are very costly in maintainability, even if you are privileged elite that buys hybrid and in two…

Toyota hybrids are much cheaper to maintain.

- No engine belts

- No starter

- No alternator

- No transmission(1)

- No torque converter

- No turbochargers

- Regenerative braking can significantly reduce brake pad wear

Edit: - AWD is an electric motor on the rear axle. No driveshaft or transfer case required.

As long as you drive it regularly and keep up with scheduled maintenance, you don't have to do anything for well over 100,000 miles.

Replacing the traction battery after 10~15 years is cheaper than the additional maintenance required for regular cars.

1: Yes, it has an “e-CVT”. Which is just a set of fixed planetary gears. All “shifting” is done through varying the power output of two electric motor-generators.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#595

Post by bumby »

toxik wrote: post #552
bumby wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of those “useless” sensors like tire pressure or backup camera are required by law. Even if you get a bare bones hatchback (manual transmission, manual locks, manual windows etc.) they’ll be forced to include those.

They are required by law in no small part because car manufacturers want it to be. Compliance is a moat.

I’m sure that factors in, but let’s not pretend that safety is also major contributor

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#596

Post by dgfitz »

threetonesun wrote: post #521
ekianjo wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations will make cars unaffordable which is exactly what they are pushing for

Tire sensors and backup cameras are dirt cheap though. Maybe lane warning and collision avoidance are a bit more but they’re both 10+ year old technology, they can’t cost that much. Also all of these things are good. Redoing the steering wheel or using 22” wheels or adding heating for each individual ass cheek… that I don’t need, and it adds to the cost.

You can't replace a tire sensor without getting it coded. Complete bullshit.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#597

Post by BanterTrouble »

bumby wrote: post #500
alerighi wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if they would make a basic car like in the past I would buy it. Everyone has to sell you too much, I want a simple car, I don't want either the stereo, I will add my own later (I can put it one that is better than the factory one for a cheaper price, but in a modern car replacing the stereo is almost impossible). There are a ton of useless sensors, the sensor that tells you if you have a flat tire (I think I can…

Some of those “useless” sensors like tire pressure or backup camera are required by law. Even if you get a bare bones hatchback (manual transmission, manual locks, manual windows etc.) they’ll be forced to include those.

The tyre pressure sensor you can make an argument to be required by law as uneven tyre pressures can negatively effect handling.

However the backup camera being required by law is absolutely ridiculous. You can just either use the mirrors or turn your head.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#598

Post by oblio »

criddell wrote: post #565
oblio wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is just so many degrees of insane that it's even hard to list all of them.

You could list a few, otherwise I'm just guessing at what you mean. Your work requires expensive gear - maybe it's a car, or smartphone, or computer, or ebike, or HVAC tools, or camera, or musical instrument - why not pay for them over time as they help generate income?

I mean that you shouldn't need a car to get a job, for absolutely all types of work.

For example a doctor or a waiter doesn't need a car to do their job, once they're at their workplace.

The US is basically forcing everyone to commute by car, except for select and limited geographies.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#599

Post by riffraff »

elif wrote: post #478
a_c wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any recommendation how to start learning repairing a car? I have absolutely zero experience. A friend of mine said just learn to change a tyre first and I have been procrastinating since.

I went down this route in the early 2010's. In preparation for an over landing expedition I wanted to have mechanical knowledge to be a sort of "mechanic" on the trip so I bought a bunch of "project cars" and began tinkering. While it WAS a lot of fun and I feel smarter, it was a total waste of time. To save you all the trouble of all I went through, it was fun debugging mechanical stuff, but ultimately there is no "…

thank you for saying this, I feel less bad about not knowing anything about fixing cars now.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#600

Post by tomrod »

lelanthran wrote: post #455
BanterTrouble wrote: post #382

I work on my own cars now (as a hobby really) and one of the reasons the new cars are so expensive is they are much more complicated. A lot of this seems to be over-engineering IMO. This is alluded to in the article, but not explicitly stated. The cars I work on are from the early 90s and everything is very simple to understand. e.g. Electronics are normally simple circuits that aren't much more complicated than what…

There's more to it than 'electronics'. Here's my more recent fixes: ----------------------------------- 1. The fuel pipe saga. Fuel pipe from pump (tank) to engine is a single, molded, hard-plastic and inflexible pipe. Connecting it to new quick release attachments on either end requires a heat gun. At the factory they can heat-shrink the connectors onto the pipes as there is no fuel in the car. When my quick-release…

Planned obsolescence of durable goods is a nasty, brutal thing. MEs and SWEs in the space ought to be speaking out loudly about the abuse of their trade.
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