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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#591

Post by yoavm »

ajsiskababa wrote: post #524
yoavm wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the Muslim world has gained quite some political power in the West, perhaps as a simple result of immigration. The EU for example seem to have about 50 times more Muslims than Jews. Anti-terrorism rhetorics has indeed previously led to terrible crimes, but I wouldn't suppose that's a reason to support pro-terrorism rhetorics. It's probably best to look at the content instead of the type of rhetoric…

What evidence of this do you see? Non Jewish natural born Americans also outnumber Jews in America, yet I don’t see any immigrant students getting deported for criticizing Americans. Jews have disproportionate levels of soft power in the US. Israel receives billions in support every year. Anti Muslim propaganda is pushed out every year in Hollywood. The medias coverage of Gaza is essentially one big lie by omission.…

I thought I wrote pretty clearly what evidence I have: the EU has about 50 times more Muslims than Jews. That translates into political power in democratic societies.

I'm not an expert on US politics and the reasoning for why the US supports Israel. I do however think that it's sensible to see Israel, with its relatively free elections, women rights, entrepreneurship etc as a more natural ally to the US than other countries in the Middle East, regardless of the "soft-power" you're referring to. The fact that some of its enemies also threaten the US probably plays a role too.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#592

Post by regularization »

notjoemama wrote: post #557

[flagged]

> I know Israel has attempted a 2 state solution 3 different times since 1947, unsuccessful because they were subsequently attacked. That's history.

I agree a two state solution has been derailed by attacks. Full implementation of the Oslo accords were derailed by the assassination of the Prime Minister of Israel. He was assassinated by a right wing Kahanist Jewish Israeli! And now the Israeli cabinet has Kahanist MPs. That's history.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#593

Post by i_love_retros »

ignoramous wrote: post #559
notjoemama wrote: post #557

[flagged]

> Now, when friendly fire occurs, when mistakes are made, unintentionally or from bad strategic intelligence, it shocks people more than it used to. Please consider these things as well when determining how you feel about Israel's recent response OK https://zionism.observer / https://tiktokgenocide.com

The video on tiktokgenocide of the little girl begging for soup is fucking heartbreaking.

I don't know what to do. I give money to non-profits and progressive political candidates, but I still feel like it's hopeless.

How do we stop Israel doing this when the US is run by evangelical christian zionists.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#594

Post by bigyabai »

notjoemama wrote: post #557

[flagged]

> Now, when friendly fire occurs, when mistakes are made, unintentionally or from bad strategic intelligence, it shocks people more than it used to.

Enshrining it in your military doctrine probably doesn't help the international response: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#595

Post by woooooo »

wuschel wrote: post #307

How credible is the reporting in in Haaretz? I am normally fairly well accustomed to the reliability and credibility of newspapers, but I have never read this newspaper.

Historically it's the pre-eminent center-left paper in Israel, with the Jerusalem Post being the center-right flagship.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#596

Post by breppp »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #520
dylan604 wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People were already living there when settlers came to create an ethno-state for themselves. Isn't that just history repeating itself? Even in the old testament, they had to clear the current inhabitants of their promised land after wander the desert for 40 years.

Archeology suggests biblical Israel was actually a federation of tribes, some of which were enemies in early parts of the Bible. For example, the philistines which became one of the 12 tribes and also are the origin of the term Palestinian.

They never became an Israeli tribe, they were a people of a foreign origin, probably greek. They have disappeared from history after they were exiled by the babylonians, like most people of the area of that time.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#597

Post by blablabla123 »

Bilal_io wrote: post #574
blablabla123 wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's possible to understand the whole issue without taking into account how people fled into Israel, both because of genocide in Europe as well as prosecution in multi-ethnic yet predominantly Arab states. Germany being in an awkward position of being an economically dominant state but also having contributed to the whole misery. Also the US is far from neutral probably due to deeper ties that are just…

They fled into Palestine*, and later established the state of Israel. Saying they fled into Israel assumes there was an Israel to begin with, but there wasn't.

Yes, it was a British colony... Either way, the vast majority moved there after the state was established. And yes, most suffered prosecution around the world including Arab countries. Pogroms against Jews are documented since centuries.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#598

Post by NohatCoder »

throw627004 wrote: post #580
maeil wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Swedish. Since I was a child, for decades, I was taught and never questioned the idea that Germany had learnt from their history, in the most admirable way. That it was really ingrained into the German culture to never let anything like the holocaust happen again. That the education system there was very good in really making people understand why it happened, what went wrong, and how to make sure there would be…

As a German, I think you should cut your colleague some slack. There's 8 billion people in the world who aren't German. If there's one topic that Germans don't chip in on, it won't move the needle. Whatever we as Germans say on Israel/Palestine will be taken the wrong way by someone. Critical of Israel? Still an antisemite! Supportive of Israel? Pathological guilt! It super sucks, but I too will leave it to others to…

And so you leave your politicians to set the official German opinion of unconditional support for Israel.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#599

Post by trhway »

Newtonip wrote: post #310
alluro2 wrote: post #177

I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment from all sides, and struggle to keep their place in the world safe. I admired their resilience and strength. When this Gaza conflict started, I saw how the Israeli protested against their government and demanded peace, so I thought there is a semblance of an e…

It's a state founded on ethnic cleansing. People were already living there when settlers came to create an ethno-state for themselves. In late 1947, their militias begun a campaign of massacring and expelling Palestinians from mostly defenseless villages. These refuges pouring into neighboring Arab countries is what prompted the 1948 war. When the war ended, they murdered any civilians trying to return to their homes…

[flagged]

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#600

Post by slt2021 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #541
Newtonip wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Including a sizeable Jewish minority. There was a Jewish community in Palestine (mostly centered around Jerusalem) but they did not come up with the Zionist project. Actually, many were opposed and some of their descendants still do so to this day. > The ethnic cleansing/settler-colonialist paradigm is easy for outsiders to project on the region The (European) architects of the Zionist project literally called it c…

> Ze'ev Jabotinsky literally compared the Zionist project to other colonial projects The Zionist Project is comparable to colonialism. That doesn’t make it settler-colonialism. (And Jabotinsky isn’t the final word on anything other than himself.)

[flagged]
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