591–600 of 764 posts
On one hand I agree with the general premise of the article, which is that you can live a lot cheaper than you choose to. Homes in the passably-cute downtown of Massena are under $100k; you could live on $40k/yr comfortably and if you're here on HN you can probably earn at least than that with a remote job. Cutting it to $5k/yr is just trying to prove something. The missing thing is health care. If you're young and i…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair, leaving everyone behind and not seeing them again was kind of what people did in the great grandfather era mentioned in the article. Even not that long ago. I was talking to someone only perhaps grandma age the other day who said their brother's family moved to BC and they didn't see them for 25 years. Your comment does focus in on the interesting point in that connected places have perhaps not scaled as…
> what people did in the great grandfather era Unfortunately the appeal to ancestry fallacy is always a terrible idea. You see this in the nutrition space where “influencers” go on and on about how our ancestors ate, forgetting that our ancestors died extremely early relative to modern humans. Similarly, our grandparents lived pretty terrible lives in many ways. The reason to complain about the high cost of living is…
While it's true that average life expectancy has increased, it's not really accurate to say that "our ancestors died extremely early". See "Did Ancient People Die Young?" at https://www.sapiens.org/biology/human-lifespan-history/ :
> Mortality rates in traditional populations are high during infancy, before decreasing sharply to remain constant till about 40 years, then mortality rises to peak at about 70. Most individuals remain healthy and vigorous right through their 60s or beyond, until senescence sets in, which is the physical decline where if one cause fails to kill, another will soon strike the mortal blow.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The lack of a budget for heating in an article that uses the term "American Siberia" is so hilariously out of touch that it makes the rest of the article farcical.
Literally mentioned in the article. Their electricity is literally less than 0.1x what I pay in California.
> as far as heat goes, well, one could either pay a little extra in electric for that — or they could have the Amish deliver their scrap wood from their sawmills to burn in a wood stove, very cheaply.
That's it. The line in the budget for heat is there and was left intentionally blank:
> Heat:
You can't just hand-wave away the cost of electric heating at the temperatures they get in upstate NY, even if the 0.04 number is accurate year-round (which it almost certainly isn't), and wood-burning stoves use way more wood than the author appears to be imagining with their "scrap wood" comment.
[0] https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/massena/new-york/unite...
I looked through those numbers, and immediately thought to myself - hope you don't need to see a doctor for anything serious, or go to a dentist for that mater. FWIW, I grew up in rural nowhere (population 150, nearest town 45 miles away) - and I honestly don't know how anyone can live out in the boonies without a car. Taking the bus that goes 3 times a day is one thing, needing to move stuff is another thing. I mean…
Why would you want to live out in the boonies without owning a car?
Just get a car.
They’re not that expensive, you can get a used beater for not much more than an iPhone. If you don’t want a beater, you can probably afford to spend a little more with the money you save from living out in the boonies.
Most people who live in the boonies owns a car.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>our ancestors died extremely early No they didn't, stop using averages.
https://ourworldindata.org/its-not-just-about-child-mortalit... Childhood mortality is only one factor, and I think at this point we're all aware that the "life expectancy was 40 years" statistic has a huge asterisk next to it. But yes, our ancestors really did die much, much younger than us.
While it's true that average life expectancy has increased, the point is that it was absolutely routine for people to live into their 60s, and not uncommon for them to live into their 70s or 80s.
See e.g. https://www.sapiens.org/biology/human-lifespan-history/
I looked through those numbers, and immediately thought to myself - hope you don't need to see a doctor for anything serious, or go to a dentist for that mater. FWIW, I grew up in rural nowhere (population 150, nearest town 45 miles away) - and I honestly don't know how anyone can live out in the boonies without a car. Taking the bus that goes 3 times a day is one thing, needing to move stuff is another thing. I mean…
These are "young people" things. The older you get, the more dependent you are on the society and it's benefits.
From what I heard it works extremely well, not the least because it's more dignified and keeps people engaged, active, and self reliant. The modern notion of the drooling, dependent nursing home patient is a product of our (artificially!) atomized system.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was not just child mortality. It was adults dying from diseases and infectiona we don't die of anymore too.
And smoking. Everybody in my parents' generation smoked and most of them died young.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Massena, the place in the article, has an airport. An international airport. Just checked flights from sfo to there, 500 bucks. I don't get how this is different than moving to another state for work.
also, if you have a social "thing" like tennis or climbing or drugs or whatever thing you like that tends to have an active and welcoming social community that you're willing to engage with, then the social issue can be dampened somewhat
As a happy side-effect, it let me get into muzzleloader season with some support from people with a lot of experience. In Vermont, muzzleloader season falls during the damnable month between Thanksgiving and New Year's when the days just keep getting shorter, and there isn't usually enough snow (where we live) for snowshoeing. Having a reason to get out in the woods and be really present and observing nature when I otherwise would have trouble is outstanding for my mental health during that month.
That's not to say there aren't opportunities to climb. A rock gym just opened near-enoughish-by and I have friends who climb outside weekly at a nearby crag.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an introvert, I believe I could live in a remote location without problem. I often wish I could switch off my hearing to just enjoy silence, and dream of getting a chance to spend time in an isolation chamber. That said, I don’t know if I’d want to live in a depressing small town, unless it had a good diner.
Rural NY isn't just for introverts. Most people are social and are somewhat active. Like most areas, an outsider will probably feel like an outsider, but if one allows themselves to be curious about the things people are into doing, I think it would be fine for typically social people. One who sneers at rural people and habits will probably not get along. And if you take too much offense at rural people sneering abou…
This is so heartbreaking.
I live in a suburban area, and have friends and neighbors from around the world -- Trinidad, Sri Lanka, Korea, Canada, and I _love_ that aspect of where I live. As I get older, I don't like the din of lawnmowers and leaf blowers. Many of my neighbors have lawn services, and the ZTRs and backpack leaf blowers are even louder than what your average joe would have to do the same job.
On top of that, since there is land by me, the local government's zoning board has approved of more and more warehouses. As such, semi truck traffic has increased significantly, and somehow they all seem to have unmuffled straight pipe exhausts. I've contacted my representatives, but none of them seem to care. The state rep passes it off to the district rep, who passes it off to the township, who passes it back off to the state. The only winning move is to leave.
The point of my tangent here, is that a place like rural NY seems idyllic to escape the noise. Anecdotes like yours, though, steer me away. I understand that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy in that regard.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> if you have a social "thing" like tennis or climbing Then you wouldn't be able to cut down expenses to "nothing"/month. Social thing assumes expenses. Hobbies assume expenses.
> Social thing assumes expenses. Hobbies assume expenses. Entertainment is a line item in the budget: Library + Fishing = “Free” Libraries can be amazingly social, for eggheads. Lots of groups and events meet there in my town. It’s a full-fledged Third Space. [Neither the library access nor fishing gear is without cost, but at least they already account for taxes.] By the way, anyone who benefits from free stuff, for…