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OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

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Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#591
post #462
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article also doesn't say that it's $3B in cash that OpenAI is spending. They might be giving Windsurf $3B worth of OpenAI shares - paying an inflated value for Windsurf with their own inflated value. OpenAI just had a fundraising round that put them at $300B. Maybe they're just giving Windsurf 1% of OpenAI. Maybe they're even giving less than 1% - if OpenAI was worth $300B at the end of March and $150B last Octob…

> OpenAI just had a fundraising round that put them at $300B. Maybe they're just giving Windsurf 1% of OpenAI That is the most hilarious maths I have ever seen, if this is true then it's maybe the biggest "holy fuck it's a bubble all the way down" I have ever seen

It is very likely that such a deal isn’t fully in cash. Maybe it’s 50/50, but probably a large part will be in stocks.

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#592
post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

openAI models are good at solid, fluent academic style prose. DeepSeek R1 can sound fresh and can use more "voices" that feel authentic to the reader. Grok-3 is close behind. Writing good prose is a far different skill than coming up with a compelling and innovative plot and style. As a data point, OpenAI now blocks o3 from doing the "continue where the story left off" test on works of fiction. It says "Sorry, I can'…

Wow that's great.

/s to make it obvious

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OpenAI has a new thing called codex but it isn't very good yet. I tried it and it's super flaky. Lot's of errors and it gets stuck when that happens. I agree with this, not sure the experience of everyone else but I felt like Claude Code is more useful. Meanwhile, I'm keeping tabs on Aider and open-codex, what other options are there?

Thanks for mentioning open-codex. Did not notice that there is a codex fork which is open to other models (update: totally missed that original codex allows that too now). How do you like it? Especially in comparison to Claude Code?

Thanks for answering! I also skipeed that the original codex now allows for other models (perhaps they pulled the open-codex part???). To be fair, I prefer Claude Code to both codexes.

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can say with a high level of confidence that the goal is definitely not to push larger orgs to ADO over GitHub. ADO is and will continue to be supported and you’re right that its project management features are much more advanced than GitHub, but the mission is not to push people off of ADO and into GitHub.

Your opening and closing statements aren’t mutually exclusive, but I can’t tell if one is a typo (or if so, which one it is). I didn’t mean to imply that MS wanted to migrate anyone, just that the different offerings serve different kinds of customers, so you can’t really just compare GitLab to GitHub and say MS is lacking in serving some group of them.

Yeah I had a typo -- the statement should have been the mission is to push people from ADO to GitHub -- sorry.

The official guidance from Microsoft since probably 2019 has been to encourage all greenfield projects to GitHub, as opposed to ADO.

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our plan is to be a superset of Cline and Roo's features (we already have all the major features from both) [0] We also have our own provider, which means no need to bring your own API keys (you can if you like, but it is batteries included by default) and we're not charging anything on top of the API pricing. Instead of monetizing on individual developers, we want it to be free for them and make money eventually off…

maybe you could answer a question about kilo usage: If I choose Google Gemini as the API provider and give it my Gemini API key, why does it say that I'm low on credits (and I get API request failures immediately)? As far as I understand gemini 2.5 pro preview is free to use. (and in Cline I'm able to choose Google Gemini as the API provider & provide my API key and it will successfully make API requests)

Hey, we can't reproduce it. Could you maybe jump in and give some more details? https://github.com/Kilo-Org/kilocode/issues/349

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#596
post #29

Incredible timeline to a $3B exit > Windsurf began in 2021 as Exafunction, founded by MIT graduates Varun Mohan and Douglas Chen. The company initially focused on GPU optimization before pivoting to AI-assisted coding tools, launching Codeium, which later evolved into Windsurf. > Series B (January 2024): $65 million at a $500 million valuation. > Series C (September 2024): $150 million, led by General Catalyst, at a…

I’ve been a WindSurf customer since day one. It was my first true AI agentic experience. [Dev mode] While working on Alembic migrations I broke one of my migration files. After an hour of manual debugging I handed the task to WindSurf. It methodically checked every config file, applied the migrations one by one, and narrowed the issue to a single file. It rewrote the migration, verified the fix, wrote tests, ensured…

It’s probably those big Fortune 500 corporate customers and getting a look inside their code bases or at least get to know their use cases

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#597
post #29

Incredible timeline to a $3B exit > Windsurf began in 2021 as Exafunction, founded by MIT graduates Varun Mohan and Douglas Chen. The company initially focused on GPU optimization before pivoting to AI-assisted coding tools, launching Codeium, which later evolved into Windsurf. > Series B (January 2024): $65 million at a $500 million valuation. > Series C (September 2024): $150 million, led by General Catalyst, at a…

I’ve been a WindSurf customer since day one. It was my first true AI agentic experience. [Dev mode] While working on Alembic migrations I broke one of my migration files. After an hour of manual debugging I handed the task to WindSurf. It methodically checked every config file, applied the migrations one by one, and narrowed the issue to a single file. It rewrote the migration, verified the fix, wrote tests, ensured…

I think it was foolish to buy it for so much money to be honest. I'm not sure how large its user base is, but that's more than likely something to do with it.

Remember that none of these tools can survive forever. Exiting was EXTREMELY smart of the founders here. Incredibly smart. I'd F off into the sunset now myself.

The reason is because they are built on top of VS Code and use Claude. So OpenAI can switch the LLM, cool, but at the end of the day there's no moat for the Cursors and Windsurfs of the world. OpenAI has the keys here because they have the proprietary LLM. This doesn't mean OpenAI will survive btw. I think Google will awkwardly win this race. They're so so so awkward though it'll take some time. It's painful to watch, but because they have the user base, they'll win. Hold that thought for a moment.

So new tools like Cursor and Windsurf will pop up all the time and do you think Microsoft will just sit by and watch? Nope. They'll update VS Code and Copilot and voila, the pendulum shift. As quickly as Cursor and Windsurf gained users, they'll lose them all again back to VS Code and Copilot. Copilot does indeed index your entire codebase - a rumor or misunderstanding by people. So as the dust settles, we'll see this change in usage. As LLMs trade places, we'll have a revolving door of fanbois and people arguing about what's better. What a rollercoaster.

What's really interesting here is that I think we're going to see a LOT of litigation. Back to Google. Look at what's happening with Google Chrome. Some genius thought they were in violation of anti-trust laws (well maybe they are). The reality is they are about to make it WAY WAY WORSE because Google Chrome was open source and should someone buy Chrome and decide they don't want to share...Well bye bye funding to virtual every other web browser. Congratulations brilliant legal system, you created a monopoly. It just wasn't Google's monopoly so I suppose that's alright.

So what I would bet is going to happen here is we're going to see OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, Anthropic, etc. all start to mess with one another here in a similar fashion. It's all going to be lobbying and legal battles. All over the place. It's going to make for an incredibly turbulent landscape. This is a very very expensive game.

THIS is why we're talking $3B. Someone is looking to protect something. It's not because of value. To think about it as a business value somewhere is wrong. Windsurf and Cursor aren't worth billions. Are you out of your mind? There's no justifiable way any rational human being would think that. When they're built on top of other tech and have absolutely no defensible position?? Heck no. It's not about their value individually, it's about their added value to these other companies. It's about bet placing. It's about protecting a larger business.

Take a moment to think what the world would look like if OpenAI must remain an open source business and or had to divest ChatGPT. They get Screwgoogled. Now ask why they're going to gobble up other businesses and why they keep raising all this money. I still think it's foolish, but it definitely seems like an existential threat that's lurking in there to me.

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Training data is almost certainly their main reason for this acquisition. Users themselves and the models they use don't really matter. What matters is their interactions with the models. Especially if you're trying to build coding agents that will be marketed to companies for $10k a month. OpenAI is going for the industry B2B opportunity here, not consumers or end users.

But aren't they getting this data already at a much larger scale? GPT is still one of the backbones in many coding assistants, even Windsurf.

They only get the preprocesses stuff that is sent to their api. But if you want to do complex coding tasks, you need the whole user interaction with the project and not just bits and pieces.

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#599
post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now they also get to see what is sent to Anthropic, Google, DeepSeek, etc., and what is returned. At scale, for a prime area of concern.

Reread the comment I replied to. It has nothing to do with Anthropic or Google or DeepSeek.

Your comment only questioned why OpenAI cares about Windsurf from a first party perspective. I expanded the rationale for why the acquisition makes sense at a different level.

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanna pick your brain a lil. Are you saying agentic AI has helped you replace devs that you would otherwise need for your startup? In your opinion, what should one do/learn to get a SDE/related gig now? What do you/other companies look for?

> I wanna pick your brain a lil. Are you saying agentic AI has helped you replace devs that you would otherwise need for your startup? I need fewer devs to get more work done... but interestingly it has put a premium on experience because a lot of the "human work" is debugging and fixing where the LLM missed the mark. So less headcount, higher skill required.

what would someone with less or no experience do then? to be desirable?
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