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Getting forked by Microsoft

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Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#591

Post by nu11ptr »

Xelynega wrote: post #545
nu11ptr wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't use GPL libraries in my code. I'm quite confident I'm not the only one. If there was no other choice, I may consider something LGPL or with the linking exception, but not until I had exhausted a search for something more permissive. To this day, I've never used GPL in any of my code, open source or closed. I've been writing code for 35 years daily.

> I won't use GPL libraries in my code. Why? Do you also avoid libraries with an even number of consonants in the name?

Strange comment given the obvious differences in GPL vs. non-GPL regardless your personal opinion. GPL code means if I decide to distribute my project in the future, I will have to distribute my source code. That isn't a risk I'm willing to take. Some of my projects are open source, but I want to retain the option of doing what I want with my code, so I don't use GPL licensed code.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#592

Post by hinkley »

mathattack wrote: post #366
jxf wrote: post #161

In distant times (before Microsoft's Satya era) I was the maintainer of a popular OSS product that scratched an important itch for specialist people who were doing work in the early cloud days. It solved my own problems, and I didn't want to make a business out of it, so I was content to release it as OSS. A Microsoft director who ran a portfolio of product teams reached out to ask about a "collaboration". I said I'd…

And as you illustrated, for a one-off project, rate doesn't really matter. It just needs to get approved by someone senior enough, who will ask "Do we have anyone in-house that knows this?" and "How much will it cost to do all this ourselves?" If the answer to the first question is "No" then you'll be very cheap compared to the second answer no matter how much you cost.

Before the economy tanked the last time I was at a couple of places that still sent people to conventions. I took a notebook and went to a mix of talks about stuff I was interested in and stuff my company was interested in. I don’t think there has ever been a conference that cost more to send devs to than what we cost the company for a day, so having us out of the office is the most expensive part of the deal (maybe that’s why some conferences go into the weekend).

I usually came back with enough notes to save me at least a couple of weeks of work. If you know how to listen, talking to an SME can save you a ton of time.

And from what I understand Microsoft is good at planning interviews to sound like they’re extemporaneous while they’ve actually worked out ahead of time what questions they need to ask you to get what they want.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#593

Post by [deleted] »

johnisgood wrote: post #294
pjmlp wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is new, I have mentioned multiple times that Microsoft management undoes the great work from .NET team. Also as polyglot developer, while I happen to have my preferences in regards to technology, I am not married with any of them. Being MVP, Champion, or whatever program each megacorp happens to have, was never something I saw value in. Never make a specific technology, or company, part of your identity as pe…

I'm only pinging you because I think a couple of days (or weeks, even) ago you or someone else mentioned it is open source (?), so I was wondering what's going on.

[deleted]

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#594

Post by johnisgood »

pjmlp wrote: post #317
johnisgood wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm only pinging you because I think a couple of days (or weeks, even) ago you or someone else mentioned it is open source (?), so I was wondering what's going on.

It is licensed as such, with some gaps versus .NET Framework and VS features.

Hmm, okay. In any case I have a lot of misconceptions about .NET, TBH.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#595

Post by Matl »

vasco wrote: post #6
diggan wrote: post #3

> As a sole maintainer of an open source project, I was enthused when Microsoft reached out to set up a meeting to talk about Spegel. The meeting went well, and I felt there was going to be a path forward ripe with cooperation and hopefully a place where I could onboard new maintainers. Seems it isn't the first time Microsoft leads open source maintainers on, trying to extract information about their projects so they…

If a megacorp wants your help to explain ANYTHING to them, you better be paid handsomely per hour. Wtf are people doing charity for trillion dollar empires.

> Wtf are people doing charity for trillion dollar empires.

I agree with you 100% but I'm guessing getting approached by Microsoft can be pretty ego boosting, which is what these companies exploit.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#596

Post by hinkley »

dusted wrote: post #201

There has been many, many stories of Microsoft doing just that, invite for some talk, learn what they need to know and then do it their way. It's not a new practice, and it's not exclusive to Microsoft either, it's something every developer should be acutely aware of, in case they're interested in avoiding it.

They’ve been accused of using interview answers in their own products as well.

I’m still salty about teaching someone something they didn’t know about caching in an interview and not making it to another round of interviews after that. If it was a huge company I’d be furious.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#597

Post by nativeit »

debugnik wrote: post #515
nativeit wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were folks under the impression there were other options for license violations? Your comment implies that a lawsuit being the only recourse to enforce a license renders that license moot.

Some people just hoped that picking a corporate-unfriendly license would be enough of a deterrent by itself, because most folks can't actually afford to sue. But infringers, big and small, are increasingly realising that these licenses are toothless by themselves, they need to be backed by money.

I don’t disagree with any of that, I think the challenge is certainly the costs of enforcement. For GPL licenses anyway (I realize the OP used the more permissive MIT license) I think their is (or there should be) a non-profit foundation established to collectivize the funding and legal actions necessary to support open source projects in these kinds of scenarios. Certainly, pursuing license violations in a manner that maximizes awareness and makes examples out of violators should prompt others to reconsider their actions.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#598

Post by jenadine »

buzzy_hacker wrote: post #456
jenadine wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with CLA? I've contributed to project with CLA. Have been using them and then wanted a feature and the project accepted my patch. Ther are still many people contributing to project with CLA.

https://discourse.writefreesoftware.org/t/anti-cla-action-wh...

That doesn't really explain why.

It seems like what's bothering him is:

> give a single entity, the project steward, a special license distinct from the one that everyone else gets, so that they may use your contribution in any way they please

But that's not a justification.

The project steward is contributing more than 90% of the code, maintain the infrastructure and servers, do the promotion, ...

So yeah, they may give some condition to accept your contribution, but I think that's fair. They don't force you to contribute. And depending of the motivation for your contribution, you get what you want, eg, the feeling of contributing to an open source project presumably used by many people, or having that entity to maintain your patch for free.

I mean, you can fork if you like, but the likelihood that your fork is getting used is not that big, and mean more work from your side to maintain the change.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#599

Post by hinkley »

anonymousiam wrote: post #243

Microsoft has almost always behaved unethically. Many examples similar to yours are easy to find. Their behavior in your case immediately reminded me of this 1994 example: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-02-24-fi-26671-... They've engaged many naive people/companies, milked them of their knowledge after signing NDAs, and then stabbed them in the back, stealing eveything. They're big enough, and have unli…

There’s a Simpsons episode that’s older than many of the readers here where Bill Gates destroys (literally has goons smash) a business Homer accidentally started.

If Matt Groening thinks you’re a gaggle of assholes you’re probably even worse.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#600

Post by pknerd »

siva7 wrote: post #579
vasco wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a megacorp wants your help to explain ANYTHING to them, you better be paid handsomely per hour. Wtf are people doing charity for trillion dollar empires.

Yes, charity. That's exactly what these trillion dollar empires think of those open source maintainers. Microsoft pulled this same stunt multiple times on os maintainers.

What else can you expect from the company that was founded by Gates?(Ref, SCP,QDOS, IBM)
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