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I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

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Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#591

I get so confused on this. I play around, test, and mess with LLMs all the time and they are miraculous. Just amazing, doing things we dreamed about for decades. I mean, I can ask for obscure things with subtle nuance where I misspell words and mess up my question and it figures it out. It talks to me like a person. It generates really cool images. It helps me write code. And just tons of other stuff that astounds me…

As others have pointed out already, the hype about writing code like senior engineer, or in general acting as a competent assistant is what created the expectation in the first place. They keep over-promising, but underdelivering. Who is the guy talking about AGI most of the time? Could it be the top-executive of one of the largest gen AI companies, do you think? I won't deny it has occasionally a certain 'star-trek-computer' flair to it, but most of the time it feels like having a heavily degraded version of "rain man". He may count your cards perfectly one moment, then will get stuck trying to untie his shoes. I stopped counting how many times it produced just outright wrong outputs, to the point of suggesting literally the opposite of what one is asking of them. I would not mind it so much, if they were being advertised for what they are, not for what they could potentially be, if only another half a trillion dollar were invested in data-centers. It is not going to happen with this technology, the issue is structural, not resource-related.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#592
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem Sabine tries to communicate is that reality is different from what the cash-heads behind main commercial models are trying to portray. They push the narrative that they’ve created something akin to human cognition, when in reality, they’ve just optimised prediction algorithms on an unprecedented scale. They are trying to say that they created Intelligence, which is the ability to acquire and apply knowled…

> They push the narrative that they’ve created something akin to human cognition This is your interpretation of what these companies are saying. I'd love to see if some company specifically anything like that? Out of the last 100 years how many inventions have been made that could make any human awe like llms do right now? How many things from today when brought back into 2010 would make the person using it make it f…

How about Sam Altman literally saying on twitter "We know how to build AGI now"? That close enough?

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#593

I get so confused on this. I play around, test, and mess with LLMs all the time and they are miraculous. Just amazing, doing things we dreamed about for decades. I mean, I can ask for obscure things with subtle nuance where I misspell words and mess up my question and it figures it out. It talks to me like a person. It generates really cool images. It helps me write code. And just tons of other stuff that astounds me…

> Just amazing, doing things we dreamed about for decades.

Chatbots like in the sci-fi of your nostalgia? I never dreamed about that shit, sorry.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#594
Simple example: My company is using Gemini to analyze every 13F filing and find correlations between all S&P500 companies the minute new earnings are released. We profited millions off of this in the last six months or so. Replicating this work alone without AI would require hiring dozens of people. How can I not be bullish on LLMs? This is only one of many things we are doing with it.

I do not understand how you can be bearish on LLMs. Data analysis, data entry, agents controlling browsers, browsing the web, doing marketing, doing much of customer support, writing BS React code for a promo that will be obsolete in 3 months anyway.

The possibilities are endless, and almost every week, there is a new breakthrough.

That being said, OpenAI has no moat, and there definitely is a bubble. I'm not bullish on AI stocks. I'm bullish on the tech.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#595
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

No major company directly states "We have created human-like intelligence," they intentionally use suggestive language that leads people to think AI is approaching human cognition. This helps with hype, investment, and PR. >I'd love to see if some company specifically anything like that? 1. DeepMind researchers: Sparks of Artificial General Intelligence: Early experiments with GPT-4 - https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.12712…

> they intentionally use suggestive language that leads people to think AI is approaching human cognition. This helps with hype, investment, and PR. As do all companies in the world. If you want to buy a hammer, the company will sell it as the best hammer in the world. It's the norm. I don't know exactly what your point is with ELIZA? > So as you can see, us humans are not too hard to fool with this. I mean ok? How i…

Im not saying LLMs are not impressive or useful — Im pointing out that corporations behind commercial AI models are capitalising on our emotional response to natural language prediction. This phenomenon isnt new – Weizenbaum observed it 60 years ago, even with the simplest of algorithms like ELIZA.

Your example actually highlights this well. AI excels at language, so it’s naturally strong in teaching (especially for language learning ;)). But coding is different. It’s not just about syntax; it requires problem-solving, debugging, and system design — areas where AI struggles because it lacks true reasoning.

There’s no denying that when AI helps you achieve or learn something new, it’s a fascinating moment — proof that we’re living in 2025, not 1967. But the more commercialised it gets, the more mythical and misleading the narrative becomes

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#596
post #153

I get so confused on this. I play around, test, and mess with LLMs all the time and they are miraculous. Just amazing, doing things we dreamed about for decades. I mean, I can ask for obscure things with subtle nuance where I misspell words and mess up my question and it figures it out. It talks to me like a person. It generates really cool images. It helps me write code. And just tons of other stuff that astounds me…

Look man, and I'm saying this not to you but to everyone who is in this boat; you've got to understand that after a while, the novelty wears off. We get it. It's miraculous that some gigabytes of matrices can possibly interpret and generate text, images, and sound. It's fascinating, it really is. Sometimes, it's borderline terrifying. But, if you spend too much time fawning over how impressive these things are, you m…

100% this. I think we should start producing independent evaluations of these tools for their usefulness, not for whatever made up or convoluted evaluation index the OpenAI, Google or Anthropic throw at us.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#597
When digital cameras first appeared, their initial generations produced low-resolution, poor-quality images, leading many to dismiss them as passing gimmicks. This skepticism caused prominent companies, notably Kodak, to overlook the significance of digital photography entirely. Today, however, film photography is largely reserved for niche professionals and specialized use-cases.

New technologies typically require multiple generations of refinement—iterations that optimize hardware, software, cost-efficiency, and performance—to reach mainstream adoption. Similarly, AI, Large Language Models (LLMs), and Machine Learning (ML) technologies are poised to become permanent fixtures across industries, influencing everything from automotive systems and robotics to software automation, content creation, document review, and broader business operations.

Considering the immense volume of new information generated and delivered to us constantly, it becomes evident that we will increasingly depend on automated systems to effectively process and analyze this data. Current challenges—such as inaccuracies and fabrications in AI-generated content—parallel the early imperfections of digital photography. These issues, while significant today, represent evolutionary hurdles rather than permanent limitations, suggesting that patience and continuous improvement will ultimately transform these AI systems into indispensable tools.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#599
My take is that if you expect current LLMs to be some near perfect, near-AGI models, then you're going to be sorely disappointed.

If that disappoints you to such a degree that you simply won't use them, you might find yourself in a position some years ahead - could be 1...could be 2...could be 5...could be 10 - who knows, but when the time comes, you might just be outdated and replaced yourself.

When you closely follow the incremental improvements of tech, you don't really fall for the same hype hysteria. If you on the other hand only look into it when big breakthroughs are made, you'll get caught in the hype and FOMO.

And even if you don't want to explicitly use the tools, at least try to keep some surface-level attention to the progress and improvements.

I honestly believe that there are many, many senior engineers / scientists out there that currently just scoff at these models, and view them as some sort of toy tech that is completely overblown and overhyped. They simply refuse to use the tools. They'll point to some specific time a LLM didn't deliver, roll their eyes, and call it useless.

Then when these tools progress, and finally meet their standards, they will panic and scramble to get into the loop. Meanwhile their non-tech bosses and executives will see the tech as some magic that can be used to reduce headcount.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#600
In general LLMs have made many areas worse. Now you see people writing content using LLMs without understanding the content itself, it becomes really annoying especially if you don't know this and ask the question "did you perhaps write this using LLM" and get the "yes" answer.

In programming circles it's also annoying when you try to help and you get fed garbage outputted by LLMs.

I belive models for generating visuals (image, video sound generation) is much more interesting as it's area where errors do not matter as much. Though the ethicality of how these models have been trained is another matter.

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