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CDC data are disappearing

theatlantic.com

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Re: CDC data are disappearing

#591

Post by MisterKent »

tomohawk wrote: post #39

It's too early to tell, but I would not be surprised if later at least a portion of this is found to be "malicious compliance". For example, President Truman ordered the US military to be (re)integrated. Through malicious compliance, racist officers put their own spin on the orders. "Well, he didn't say that black officers would get equal access to the officers club, so we won't let them in." It too a former 5 star g…

Malicious Compliance is not the right word. But, I thought about it and am slightly hopeful.

Their goal could be obedience such that

A) the Musk cronies don't come through and truly delete the data (vs, just taking it offline)

B) they don't get fired and can take a stand when "bigger" issues happen. I.e another pandemic.

Or y'know,

C) they want to keep their jobs and decided to just obey.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#592

Post by Xunjin »

eCa wrote: post #574
Xunjin wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Musk was a bad example, I mean for example, people wants better health care, and some public person and/or politician proposes better prices in prescriptions drugs at a mid term, then that person who was elect does not only holds the power but also is obligated to follow that project. It's literally to detach the person from the projects, of course times changes and the elected project can not be achieved by…

(I did the, slightly snarky, original sibling comment, but this comment was better to reply to.) My understanding of your original comment was similar to how 'JkCalhoun understood it, but this comment reads more like "the country show follow through on decided changes" regardless of who is in power. That I agree more with, with exceptions of course. (One example is maybe Obamas connection with "Obamacare" that is sti…

Pretty much what you said, Obamacare is a great example. Your snarky comment was pretty after I thought about.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#593

Post by hackyhacky »

tbugrara wrote: post #590
hackyhacky wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. When someone is wrong, you can correct them. When someone is lying , i.e. knowingly spreading falsehood in an effort to manipulate an audience, it's vitally important to call them out on it. People need to recognize who is using misinformation as a weapon. The points of highlighted are manipulative rhetorical techniques, not merely bad arguments. These people need to be identified and shunned, es…

Consider your own ignorance. It is impossible to be certain of anything because of unknown unknowns. You merely assume they are lying, but you could never prove that. A righteous condemnation with no proof and all feelings is exactly the soil the grows facism.

> Consider your own ignorance. It is impossible to be certain of anything because of unknown unknowns. You merely assume they are lying, but you could never prove that.

Good point. In fact, I can't even prove that America exists. I can't prove that you're real person, or that I'm typing on a computer, or that I even exist. My own eyes could be deceiving me. I am condemned to a universe full of impenetrable doubt.

I should probably just ignore reason and logic, and instead spend my days shivering and alone, unable to interact with a world where so much is forever unknowable.

Of course, you can't prove that I can't prove that grepfru_it is lying, so really it would be you who should consider your own ignorance. I assume that a sage like yourself has already internalized your own advice and that you strictly avoid engaging in news or debate, since all externalities are unproveable. Right?

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#594

Post by _heimdall »

hackyhacky wrote: post #576
_heimdall wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh there are societal issues here as well, no argument there. They all roll down hill from individuals' choices though. Society didn't force Walter Cronkite on us. People chose to listen to him and a small number of other trusted sources, and they began choosing to take what was said by those sources at face value. I'm not even saying that was a bad thing or wrong, at the time news did seem to be reported in better f…

> I don't see how this could have started as a societal issue rather than individual choice first. really? I'd say it's clearly a matter of education. Critical thinking and media analysis just isn't part of American public schooling. If anything, people are taught to believe authority figures. Regardless of how it "started", blaming the individual isn't helpful , because that suggests there's nothing to be done. "Wel…

Sounds like we just have a very different view the relative merits of individual vs collective (or societal) approaches.

I very much shy away from control, and that generally means trusting the individual to generally do what is best or at a minimum accept that the result of that will at least be more resilient than the result of a collectivist or top-down approach. Both have risks for sure and there are absolutely times where individualism are a bad idea in my opinion, this just doesn't meet that bar for me.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#595

Post by hackyhacky »

_heimdall wrote: post #594
hackyhacky wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how this could have started as a societal issue rather than individual choice first. really? I'd say it's clearly a matter of education. Critical thinking and media analysis just isn't part of American public schooling. If anything, people are taught to believe authority figures. Regardless of how it "started", blaming the individual isn't helpful , because that suggests there's nothing to be done. "Wel…

Sounds like we just have a very different view the relative merits of individual vs collective (or societal) approaches. I very much shy away from control, and that generally means trusting the individual to generally do what is best or at a minimum accept that the result of that will at least be more resilient than the result of a collectivist or top-down approach. Both have risks for sure and there are absolutely t…

Since we're talking about the functioning of democracy, which necessarily requires a plurality of people, I don't see how anything other than group- or society-level action could possibly make any difference.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#596

Post by lucb1e »

hackyhacky wrote: post #572
lucb1e wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do feel like there is a limit to how biased a source can be when it tries to be based in evidence, though. Nobody would disagree that 1+1=2, basic physics tells one that COVID is not spread by 5G towers, the climate has warmed enough that you can dump weather records into a spreadsheet and see the effect without needing to measure CO2 at all. That COVID causes disease and a warming climate causes more extreme weath…

> Nobody would disagree that 1+1=2, basic physics tells one that COVID is not spread by 5G towers, But yet people believe these things, and will believe a source that supports them. What's obvious to you is not obvious to others.

Nah come on, what you've cited is obvious to everyone but a delusional 0.001%. They do not need a podium for that

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#597

Post by hackyhacky »

lucb1e wrote: post #596
hackyhacky wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody would disagree that 1+1=2, basic physics tells one that COVID is not spread by 5G towers, But yet people believe these things, and will believe a source that supports them. What's obvious to you is not obvious to others.

Nah come on, what you've cited is obvious to everyone but a delusional 0.001%. They do not need a podium for that

You're not an American, so maybe you aren't aware how widespread conspiracy theories are in the US and how much they influence the public discourse. As a trivial example, the American Senate is currently interviewing the nominee for the head of Health and Human Services, which oversees the NIH, CDC, and FDA, among other agencies.

The nominee, Robert F Kennedy Jr, has been very outspoken in his opinions, some of which are:

   Wi-Fi causes cancer and "leaky brain"
   Chemicals in the water supply could turn children transgender
   Antidepressants are to blame for school shootings
   AIDS is not be caused by HIV
   the Covid is designed to target white and black people but not Ashkenazi Jews
This nominee will likely be approved. These opinions are shared by a significant body of people who voted for the president who nominated him.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#598

Post by johnnyanmac »

alwa wrote: post #526
astrange wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't do anything about state AGs. Federalism is kind of silly but it works out here.

Can state AGs prosecute federal crimes, like this one?

My understanding is that anyone can sue anyone in theory. Ideally, yes.

In practice, the State AG's are one of the most respectable powers to sue for a federal law being broken, which would then go to federal court. Ideally the SCOTUS would step in itself and injunction all this stuff so it doesn't get to this point, but Trump sure is working them overtime.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#599

Post by johnnyanmac »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #446
timhigins wrote: post #436

Removing these records from the public internet could likely be considered illegal under the OPEN Government Data Act, 44 U.S.C. § 3506: > (d) With respect to information dissemination, each agency shall— (3) provide adequate notice when initiating, substantially modifying, or terminating significant information dissemination products; (4) not, except where specifically authorized by statute— (A) establish an exclusi…

Lol I think anyone who thinks legal and illegal mean anything, has still not gotten the plot.

Courts are still fighting. Something are being overturned already (which is lightning quick). The moment we throw our hands up and give up is when the administration wins.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#600

Post by johnnyanmac »

throw101010 wrote: post #462
timhigins wrote: post #436

Removing these records from the public internet could likely be considered illegal under the OPEN Government Data Act, 44 U.S.C. § 3506: > (d) With respect to information dissemination, each agency shall— (3) provide adequate notice when initiating, substantially modifying, or terminating significant information dissemination products; (4) not, except where specifically authorized by statute— (A) establish an exclusi…

If this was an order from the President as an official act, no scrutiny can be applied here in any court (broad immunity recently granted by the SCOTUS: absolute immunity for actions within his core constitutional powers and presumptive immunity for other official acts)... so good luck proving any wrongdoing without any evidence... If you go after any of the underlings who executed such order, they are likely getting…

>within his core constitutional powers

Well that's the part to challenge, no? As we've seen much too often, just because one ruling happens doesn't mean that later cases can't overturn that precedent.

I'd rather encourage and cheer on these powers because it's not like you and me are doing anything.

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