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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#591

Post by Aloisius »

istjohn wrote: post #399
DiscourseFan wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but Hezbollah and Hamas caused enough grievances on their own. They were violent, far-right, Iran-backed terrorists that suppressed any sort of grassroots self-organization. Isreal wanted them there, they were easy to control, easy to use as an excuse to do whatever they pleased. I doubt the youth of Gaza or Lebanon are stupid enough to fall for the same trick twice.

I doubt the Palestinian people are going to just sit and watch Israel slowly usurp what remains of their homeland. It's never a good idea to underestimate the price a people are willing to pay for their freedom. The French learned that in Algeria, the British in Ireland, and the US in Veitnam.

> The French learned that in Algeria, the British in Ireland, and the US in Veitnam.

One of those things is not like the others.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#593

Post by fxwin »

xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

> His base and his cabinet is full of the most hard-line pro-israel figures imaginable

His base and the people surrounding him have the habit of ostracizing anyone who doesn't fall in line behind him, rather than being guided by principle (Which is why Pence is no longer his VP pick, and why basically his whole cabinet is full of sycophants compared to last time).

Trump's whole shtick is to take whatever is happening, and spin it into "This was my whole plan all along", then take the credit for it. This is why you never see him give concrete policy proposals in interviews, and is also what will likely happen with the russia/ukraine war. Whatever happens is good, and was part of Trump's plan, and his base will fall in line or disappear politically.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#594

Post by croes »

wordofx wrote: post #475
mjfl wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas accepted the deal back in May, but then Netanyahu refused to sign the deal, and revised it into a form that was no longer acceptable.

[flagged]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-01-14/ty-article/.p...

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#595

Post by fxwin »

tptacek wrote: post #350

Hamas was offered a ceasefire under exactly the same terms in May, and refused it. Since then: * Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of the Hamas political wing, was killed in Tehran * Yahyah Sinwar, the leader of the Al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in Gaza * Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Lebanese Hezbollah, was killed in Beirut * Hashem Safieddine, Nasrallah's successor, was killed a week later * Large swathes of Hezbollah'…

> They should have taken the deal when it was first offered.

That's a pretty good summary of basically the last 100 years of that region's history lol

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#596

Post by bawolff »

lostlogin wrote: post #580
bawolff wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How are you proposing the deal could be made more fair? Keeping hostages is a war crime. A fair thing would be for Hamas to follow its obligations under international law and unconditionally release them (before anyone says, well israel did X which also isn't allowed, 2 wrongs don't make a right). > more damage was done to Gaza than any European city during wwii How are you quantifying this? I'd be surprised if Gaz…

Dresden is a darkly funny choice for comparison. Area bombing definitely wasn't a war crime and Arthur Harris was not a war criminal.

Regardless of the circumstances of the bombing, if the question is - did there exist any cities in europe that were more damaged in WW2 than gaza was in the current conflict, isn't it natural to compare gaza with the most famously damaged european city in WW2? Like what comparison would you expect to be made in relation to that question?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#597

Post by reissbaker »

gravisultra wrote: post #296
boringg wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is a good development. Everything in this part of the world is on a rinse snd repeat cycle ever since the Assyrians and the Babylonians - it hasn't changed much except maybe its actually a little more humane then it was in the past (which says something). Sorry for the cynical take but this just does a temporary stop.

That's not true at all. The current conflict isn't some thousand year old feud. It was very much caused by the deliberate provocation and importation of European settlers via Zionism. It's easy to wave our hands and say "it's so complicated!" or "they've been doing this for thousands of years!" but it's not complicated, much like apartheid South Africa, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were not complicated. Colonialis…

The plurality of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi (aka, Jews who never left the Middle East), at 45% of the population [1]. This isn't about Europeans, or even "race": Mizrahi Jews and their Palestinian neighbors are racially indistinguishable.

Ashkenazi Jews — that is, Jews who lived in Europe during the Diaspora — make up less than a third of Israeli Jews. [2] Although if you're dead-set on racial essentialism and blood-and-soil nationalism, Ashkenazi Jews are firmly within the Middle Eastern/Levantine clade and are more closely related to Palestinians than they are any European group. [3]

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews_in_Israel

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews_in_Israel

3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jews

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#598

Post by mrkeen »

bko wrote: post #375
conception wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the west learned after WW1 that it’s better to rebuild your enemies in corporation than punish them when you win and let grudges fester.

Aid to Germany after World War II under the Marshall Plan totaled $14 billion ($60 billion in today’s value), averaging $272 per capita across participating nations over four years. In contrast, Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank have received $1,330 per capita since 1993, or $161 annually, more than twice the per-capita annual aid under the Marshall Plan

> Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank have received

starvation tactics

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-war-un-f...

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#599

Post by seventhtiger »

bawolff wrote: post #510
hedora wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you proposing the deal could be made more fair? Keep in mind: Israel killed 100x more civilians than Palestine during this conflict, and more damage was done to Gaza than any European city during wwii. 90% of the population is displaced. 10% are casualties. Israel intentionally blew up all the civil infrastructure (hospitals, doctors, engineers) first. There are > 17,000 children that have no adults to care f…

> How are you proposing the deal could be made more fair? Keeping hostages is a war crime. A fair thing would be for Hamas to follow its obligations under international law and unconditionally release them (before anyone says, well israel did X which also isn't allowed, 2 wrongs don't make a right). > more damage was done to Gaza than any European city during wwii How are you quantifying this? I'd be surprised if Gaz…

Israel's prisons are full of Palestinian hostages kidnapped from Gaza and the West Bank. Their courts have no jurisdiction over them and have no issue calling anyone a terrorist.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#600

Post by croes »

ars wrote: post #4

I credit Trump's pressure on Hamas - Hamas eventually softened a lot of their positions because they realized they had no choice. And I wish Biden had done a better job of supporting Israel, this war could have ended a lot sooner if Hamas had realized that the entire world was pressuring them to surrender. Instead the message got diluted with support for Palestinians, which Hamas interpreted as support for themselves…

They agreed to the same terms from last May, so where did the soften anything?

Looks more like the Iranian hostage situation when Carter lost against Reagan.

>if Hamas had realized that the entire world was pressuring them to surrender.

I guess you mean the entire western world. The rest doesn't care or doesn't Israel vs Hamas as good vs evil. Same with Russian vs Ukraine.

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