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Nobody cares

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Re: Nobody cares

#591
post #529
post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is, in my neck of Seattle (the city this post is complaining about), I've seen some of the harsh white LEDs that went in switched over to a warmer color. I remember being quite shocked when I pulled into a city-owned parking lot one night and realized that all of the lights around were all now a warmer color instead of the harsh white. The lights in my neighborhood also seem to have been switched over…

In my city they started turning off all streetlights at midnight outside of major driving lanes and active center areas. It's weird and somewhat unnerving at first but brilliant. I'd argue road-wise it is possibly even safer because headlights work so much better when it's pitch black by virtue of the human eye having so much dynamic range. Pedestrians can't miss cars as they're blasting light through the dark; cars…

WTF? What about pedestrians? Are they walking in full darkness?

This seems to be totally oriented to cars. I find American cities incredibly dark by night. Walking around feels too dark and unpleasant.

Re: Nobody cares

#592

There must be a name for this bias. "Everyone else's stuff sucks but the reason my stuff sucks is because someone is keeping me from doing good work" Other people are always the problem. It's like the anecdote that most people think they are better than average drivers. "L.A. has bad drivers, but not me. The quality of everyone's output is down, but not mine." Ask an engineer why their code is bad and they blame past…

Well, we live in a punitive culture that ascribes great social value to appearances.

To your example, if I tell my friends that I had a tough day at work because the old code was broken I will get more sympathy then if I say I wrote some shitty code last week and it made my day awful.

Another example, in a minor traffic accident, it might be nice to say "oh I'm sorry that was my fault" but I would be penalized by my insurance carrier for making such a statement.

We have successfully integrated the results of capitalism and game theory directly into our language. And I believe that has a knock on effect: people's actions follow from their thoughts which are influenced by the set of things they're allowed to or not allowed to vocalize.

We have aggressively evolved away from anything like humility or empathy being expressed in this culture because we punish that behavior.

Re: Nobody cares

#593
post #425

Its ironic, because this dude doesn't seem to care enough to even the slightest bit of research to understand why any of these problems he highlights are the way they are, and lazily attributes everything to OTHER people not caring. LEDs last longer, are more energy efficient, and also reduce light pollution because they are more directional[1]. Took me 30 seconds to google. There are enormous design standards for de…

I live in the Netherlands, in the burbs, and have to cycle a lot. That picture of a bike ramp... I can feel it. Whatever that document you googled says, it's wrong, if it justifies building ramps like that. That ramp is bad. There's no two ways about it.

But, responding to this particular example is missing the point of the article. Let me, for a moment, agree with you, and say that the ramp is within acceptable parameters: still, the author complains about a more general phenomenon, a lot of aspects of this phenomenon are very relatable. And it doesn't have to manifest itself uniformly and similarly everywhere in every detail.

For example, suburban houses in the Netherlands really show people care about the neighborhood. The want things to be nice. Windowsills are always decorated, have some art displayed in the windows, just for the passerby to enjoy. People mostly care to pick up after their dogs and to generally not litter. People even invest into community playgrounds, community garden patches etc. Life is good, at least in this respect.

But, when I go to work, things change. Not only people around me don't care, they very much want everyone to not care, because that would show them in a bad light. It's a convention of sorts, that people understand without saying anything out loud. Do the absolute minimum, waste a lot of time doing nothing of value, don't rock the boat. And it is, as the author says, demoralizing. It makes my blood boil when defects discovered in our product, and instead of being fixed they get documented in a bottomless pit of our multi-thousands pages PDF manual, and the product is shipped regardless. A lot of these defects resulted not from honest mistakes, but from a desire to do as little work as possible, and to do only the "pleasant" part of the work: programmers prefer writing new code to fixing existing code. Testing is for wimps. Adding more stuff without fixing existing problems results in simply having more problems.

* * *

Now, how to make people care?--I don't know. I know of some things that worked, but they have bad side-effects (religion works, but sometimes it detracts into killing a lot of people, communism works, as in kibbutzim, but then it loses momentum, and is very prone to be exploited by external forces also, doesn't work on a large scale.)

Re: Nobody cares

#594

As a physician who does care, I found it interesting that he chose to include doctors in this tirade but then patted himself on the back for squashing bugs quickly and feeling badly about having written buggy code. I know that there are outliers, but in meeting and working with literally hundreds of other physicians at this point in my career, I can count on one hand the doctors who truly do not care. And boy do we f…

Regardless of facts about how much doctors actually care, he still perceives the world as one where almost nobody does. I'm glad he expressed himself as such because I feel the same way sometime, even though I know that most people try to fill their role in society well. It's like a special kind of loneliness that grows quick. I like how he describes the development of this loneliness. Once he put on its glasses, he thinks carelessness is everywhere, even in doctors who do care, so he develops existential hopelessness of some sort.

Re: Nobody cares

#595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why doesn’t Japan have this problem?

If you dig deep enough, you might find that Japan has plenty of other problems that people in the developed west don't, but of course the grass is always greener on the other side.

Don't leave us hanging like that.

Re: Nobody cares

#596
>DMV

>software […] found some regulatory capture

>a large healthcare company that engages in regulatory capture

>municipal governments

>department of transportation

>Street lights

>airport

What do they all have in common?

I think he dismissed “incentive systems” way too early.

I would also argue that people not following the law (e.g. not picking up their dog’s poop) or proper laws simply not existing (e.g. playing shitty EDM on a trail) have the same root cause.

Governments don’t care.

It’s still amazing to me how some smart people still want the government to manage an even larger part of their lives when we should clearly be pushing in the other direction.

Of course they only want this when The Party I Agree With(TM) is in power, not so much when it’s The Party I Don’t Agree With(TM).

Re: Nobody cares

#597
post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was working so hard to change the internal culture for this. I did not succeed. It's ran by business people who want to make money. Not by philosophers.

Same here. Also, TFA sounds like something I could've written. Anyway, besides other anecdata, I don't have anything to add. But I wanted to thank you, azeirah, that at least you tried

I left impressions where it matters. The young engineering talent is not interested in working there.

Re: Nobody cares

#598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in the UK. Isn’t waiting for others to get off before you get on just basic courtesy? There are definitely individuals who don’t do this, but most do. Same in lifts. Other than that, I completely agree that people in Japan seem to care and take their jobs more seriously than elsewhere. Though my Japanese friends would probably tell me that it’s not because they deeply care — really they’re just terrified of stan…

It's not even the basic courtesy, it's basic reason . The inside of the train is smaller than the outside (which is a station) so it's easier to maneuver your way if you first let people out and then go inside than it is in the case when you first go inside and then try to let people to go out. The same is true with elevators.

True.

Re: Nobody cares

#599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you thought this through? Incessant requests for an unimportant matter is a sure way to have those in charge of said matters not care , not only about that particular request but requests in general or the desires of requesters.

If it’s unimportant then why is there a rule against it? Why did everyone agree to this rule when they bought a home there if it didn’t matter? Clearly it exists for a reason and if no one enforced it then it’s completely pointless

> Why did everyone agree to this rule when they bought a home there if it didn’t matter?

I don't think you have thought this through. People are generally not asked about every bylaw individually. Maybe they bought the house because it was close to work. Or maybe they bought the house to get the kids into a good school. Maybe they bought the house because they just loved the garden. Or maybe they bought it because that was the only one they could afford after a long search and they were exhausted and just wanted to live somewhere.

Even if they read the rules maybe they cared about 80% of them and couldn't give a hoot about that specific one. (Maybe they like that their neighbour can't turn their front yard into a mechanic shop, but they don't care what colour their door is. That sort of thing.)

They might have agreed to it in a legalistic sense. As in they signed a piece of paper which referred to an other piece of paper which had this rule in it among many others. But you can't pretend that that means they "agreed" to it in the common sense meaning.

> Clearly it exists for a reason

That is not always clear. No.

> if no one enforced it then it’s completely pointless

Some rules are completely pointless. Weather or not they are enforced is a different point. But either way enforcing it doesn't make it have a point if it had none to begin with.

Re: Nobody cares

#600
post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of physicians have terrible bedside manner and that is going to be one of the biggest criteria a non-physician is going to use to judge how much they care. And I don't think that's unreasonable, either. It's necessary for a physician to communicate effectively with their patient. Trust is a requirement to work effectively together. If you can't establish that, then you've failed. Encounters with doctors shouldn…

in situations like that, i like to think about Berkson's paradox [0]. In the overall population, bedside manner and medical aptitude are likely uncorrelated. But the individuals that fall into the quadrant of bad bedside manner AND low medical aptitude will be filtered out of the profession. That means that in the remaining population, you have an externally-induced negative correlation between bedside manner and med…

TIL that there's a name for it. I always just sort of intuited this phenomenon.
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