NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#591

Post by scrose » Tue, Jan 07, 2025, 9:36 PM UTC

magic_smoke_ee wrote: post #543

1. The graph doesn't work on desktop. It keeps endlessly animating in the data values flyover at a given point. 2. Congestion pricing, more generally, is ivory tower social engineering (economic discrimination like toll lanes) and a disproportionate tax on the working poor. It would be fairer if it were progressively taxed based on income.

Where is this mythical “working poor” that drives into midtown Manhattan everyday for work? Do you have any stats whatsoever on the number of people who would be impacted? Maybe even a salary range you consider to be “working poor”?

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#592

Post by joshuamorton » Tue, Jan 07, 2025, 9:38 PM UTC

Lanolderen wrote: post #444

blehn wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one likes decent and cheap public transport? I find that hard to believe. It's basically the common denominator for the best modern cities. Motorcycles are definitely not the solution. Motorcycle usage in NYC has skyrocketed since 2020 and as a result the streets are far noisier, more chaotic, and more dangerous, especially for pedestrians and cyclists.

I mean it in the sense that I've literally never met a person who prefers travelling by public transport to a personal motorized vehicle outside of long trips. The usage I've seen of it is from people who are too much of a mess financially to afford a car/license or people who are terrified of driving. Incentives just don't fix the issue of having no control and being in a pod with a hundred people you don't know and…

I drove for years and was very happy to rid myself of my car and rely solely on SF's public transit and Uber/Lyft for when I need to go somewhere that isn't as readily accessible. Scooters and EBikes can't get me across the bay bridge anyway.

And SF's public transit is worse (both less useful and less comfortable) compared to NYC, many European cities, and any Japanese or Chinese megacity. I still find it perfectly fine, and preferable to dealing with a car.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#593

Post by dml2135 » Tue, Jan 07, 2025, 9:38 PM UTC

rendang wrote: post #575

dml2135 wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I truly feels safe on the NYC subway. You know what's more dangerous than riding the subway? Driving in a car.

Driving in a car is pretty dangerous when you're in some Texas suburb with 50mph arterial streets. Going 20mph through lower Manhattan with an intersection every few hundred feet, not so much

Some quick googling gives me the following figures:

https://www.chopranocerino.com/blog/new-york-accident-statis....

> There were 5,809 crashes on the busy streets of Manhattan in 2023. The borough reported 34 deaths (19 pedestrians, 11 motorists, and 4 cyclists). In total, there were 7,253 injuries.

https://www.vitalcitynyc.org/articles/how-rare-is-crime-on-t...

> ...there were 1,120 violent index crimes reported as occurring on the subway in 2023, compared to 935 in 2019

Even comparing just Manhattan to the subway system as a whole, driving is more likely to result in an injury by a factor of 7x.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#594

Post by stemlord » Tue, Jan 07, 2025, 9:53 PM UTC

mr_00ff00 wrote: post #165

kittikitti wrote: post #161

Good, I was hit by a car in NYC while on a bike and it caused a fracture. If this reduces congestion, then I support it because I could have easily died. However, this was accompanied by hikes in public transit pricing. I don't think transit officials are acting in good faith when it comes to their moral arguments and just want to justify raising taxes for the poor.

The people paying the congestion fees are the rich that live in the suburbs and drive into the city.

It is expected that fees will also be passed down to non-wealthy locals by services whose vehicles need to utilize these roads as well-- they will raise their prices

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#595

Post by hammock » Tue, Jan 07, 2025, 9:59 PM UTC

lordgrenville wrote: post #423

hammock wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprised that on a forum for startups , this comment is the most downvoted. Have we lost all self-awareness?

The VC-funded startup model is predicated on becoming a large business, not staying a small one.

The storyline as I remember it, was that startups can uniquely disrupt the big organizations (private or governmental) and unlock growth that was otherwise unavailable, and that's what attracted VC money in the first place. Innovator's Dilemma and all that. Seems like an eon ago.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#596

Post by seaofliberty » Tue, Jan 07, 2025, 10:02 PM UTC

randomopining wrote: post #368

seaofliberty wrote: post #110

[flagged]

Why are poor people who own a car and can pay for parking driving into Manhattan often? Does your premise even make sense?

Because they have a job, dummy. Are you for real?

Subways are not safe and it is terrible to go by subway when you can travel with car everywhere.

If you make $120k in NYC supporting a family of 3 (husband, wife, 1 kid), you are left with almost $1k with extremely tight budget. Now, $9 a day will cost you (22 days * 9 * 11 month) = $2,198.

Not everyone values time. Poor people, lower middle class and middle class need money and food on the table and not additional expense out of pocket for comfort of upper middle class and rich people.

Upper middle class and rich people value time because that is the only thing they can optimize. Money is imaginary and can't do better beyond certain level (think $2 MM Net worth).

America NYC is now so arrogant that it is making roads exclusive for people who make lots of money (>$150k).

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#597

Post by seaofliberty » Tue, Jan 07, 2025, 10:04 PM UTC

SkipperCat wrote: post #151

seaofliberty wrote: post #110

[flagged]

I’m a wall st bro and I work with a lot of other wall st bros. We all use the subway to get to our job in manhattan.

Either you are lying or not good enough to drive car. What about White women? Are they going to take "subway" because there is congestion pricing?

YOU are naive or in for big surprise.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#598

Post by seaofliberty » Tue, Jan 07, 2025, 10:06 PM UTC

asukumar wrote: post #293

seaofliberty wrote: post #110

[flagged]

You are absolutely wrong. Do you even work in Manhattan? If you stand outside Fulton St. or Wall St. stations at 8:30am you’ll see that the vast majority of “Wall St. Bros” take the subway to work. I’ve worked in the World Trade Center for 5 years now and I don’t recall any coworkers who drive to work.

Oh vey! YOU don't know what you are talking about. You are average investment Bankie who claims to make dollars.

Your response is emotional and not practical. Tell me how Congestion Pricing is not a tax on poor and does not take away their hard earned money for no reason? Does it not comfort for rich people who make money on stocks mostly?

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#599

Post by 3ple_alpha » Tue, Jan 07, 2025, 10:28 PM UTC

Lanolderen wrote: post #334

alamortsubite wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're way overplaying the dangers of "crazies" and "the bacteria greenhouse" with respect to travel by motorcycle or scooter (or even automobile). I agree with your point that we should encourage these modes of transportation over cars, but I'd add it will be electric bikes that finally turn the tide on traffic congestion in cities (and all the other great benefits that come with doing that). Just don't tell the ele…

I mean, I'm definitely biased but I've been sick once since ~2015 and that was Covid I caught at a large anniversary celebration. Before that I was With crazies it's not that bad. I remember the bus getting pulled over once by a car with people with pipes/bats who beat a grandpa for getting in an argument with one of the guys prior. That was the only actually violent occurance over thousands of rides, however I still…

I've driven electric motorbike for 7 years and it's absolutely great for everyday commute. Lighter ones tend to have removable batteries so they work even when you don't have a garage with electric outlet. Some heavier ones you can even take on an occasional long trip, though that's not super convenient – it's commuting (combined with joy of riding) that makes them useful.

One does need to know where one is going to service it, though, because they can sometimes have stupid electrical issues which are objectively easy to fix but hard for you to fix on your own cause you don't know which wire goes where.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#600

Post by whimsicalism » Tue, Jan 07, 2025, 10:45 PM UTC

mazugrin2 wrote: post #562

whimsicalism wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's too bad SF did not build an underground railway system covering the city in the short window when the labor to do so was affordable

What do you mean by "the short window when the labor to do so was affordable"? Other cities in the world seem to be able to build underground railways just fine and they have similar labor costs as the US. See Paris or Sydney for cities that have created new underground railways recently.

Labor costs in Paris for building rail are considerably cheaper https://archive.is/Ojs0k

But my comment was a bit tongue in cheek - it is mostly political dysfunction. Of course the US could find people willing to work for less than $400/hr or whatever, but there is an incentive disalignment.