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Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

cnn.com

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Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#591

Post by FrustratedMonky »

oneshtein wrote: post #585
pelasaco wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just to be honest, the Pipelines explosion, had "Russia" written all over it, except after investigation, and a possible culprit, i.e not Russia, then nobody wanted to discuss about it anymore. I think the hysteria is too high, people are thirsty for War, looks like..

Delivery of Russian gas was stopped by Russia in violation of contract. European gas companies demands $20 billion in compensation. Nobody had incentive to blow up empty pipes except Russia. Of course, Russians used false flag as usual, to blame Ukraine, but Ukraine doesn't hide successful attacks on Russian infrastructure, because Ukraine has legal right to defend itself.

Wait. Wasn't it Ukraine that blew up the pipeline? I'm all for them defending themselves.

Are you saying it was actually Russia that did it? They blew up own pipeline?

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#592

Post by castigatio »

Etheryte wrote: post #242
staplung wrote: post #63

It's worth mentioning that cable breakages happen quite often; globally about 200 times per year [1] and the article itself mentions that just last year, two other cables and a gas pipeline were taken out by an anchor. The Gulf of Finland is evidently quite shallow. From what I understand, cable repair ships are likely to use ROVs for parts of repair jobs but only when the water is shallow so hopefully they can figur…

This is a misleading framing. The two cables last year were not taken out by an anchor as an accident, it was literally a ship putting down its anchor just before the cable and then dragging it over the cable. In other words, sabotage. There's no point in trying to color any of this with rose tinted glasses when it's clear who's done it and why.

But this person is just speaking the truth - I worked for an ISP with cable landing stations. These cables went down several times a year due to physical damage of non nefarious kinds. It's not obvious that this malicious. It certainly might be but it's not a slam dunk.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#593

Post by FrustratedMonky »

peutetre wrote: post #576
vasco wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I lived in a world where it's so easy to know who is good and who is evil and to pinpoint them so well.

You do. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is not an ambiguous war. Russia is plainly in the wrong.

Yeah.

Lot of Russian Apologist.

Russia invades Ukraine -> It is Biden's fault, he ordered it.

Russia actually invading and killing -> It was NATO's fault for discussing admission.

Like, Russia is actually 'doing the bad things'.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#594

Post by oneshtein »

sekai wrote: post #478
trhway wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes. What Russia does currently is probing and testing - what it takes to disrupt all the necessary cables simultaneously to create communication breakdown and a lot of chaos, what resources and time it takes to repair (and thus planning the options on blocking those repair resources, etc.) It takes tanks half-a-day to cross the Baltic states to reach the sea. That is the time Russia wants to buy. Once Russian forces…

> It takes tanks half-a-day to cross the Baltic states to reach the sea And how long does it take for the F35 to fly across all Baltic States? 30 minutes at max speed. Without air supremacy, Russia would be dead in the water. > That is the time Russia wants to buy. Once Russian forces are already in Riga, Tallinn, Vilnus, the NATO will have a decision to make on whether to bomb the Russian forces already placed by th…

RF has no air supremacy in Ukraine, so they have high loses, but they advance anyway. Small or large losses will not stop an empire, except Imperial Japan maybe.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#595

Post by FrustratedMonky »

Maxion wrote: post #430
Aloisius wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was literally a ship putting down its anchor just before the cable and then dragging it over the cable I don't understand. That's how I'd expect most accidents to happen. Someone decides to anchor too close to an undersea cable, the anchor fails to hold and the drifting ship drags the anchor over the cable damaging it. I'm not saying it wasn't sabotage, but there needs to be something a bit more than that. Sourc…

The case last year with the gas pipeline, the Chinese / Russian owned left Kaliningrad, and then while sailing, dropped its anchor before the pipeline and cable, and then dragged it over them, and then raised it. It was apparently accidental, yet both the Chinese and Russians didn't want the crew interviewed, the Estonian and the Finnish authorities both shrugged and didn't really care, and the Estonian energy prices…

"Estonian and the Finnish authorities both shrugged and didn't really care"

Is this true?

Or

Are we now in a world where we are all living in fear of actual military retribution for speaking out?

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#596

Post by sedan_baklazhan »

Sabinus wrote: post #563
sedan_baklazhan wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Ukrainian borders are closed from day one. 2. Russian borders are open from day one. 3. Ukrainian conscription is keeping on going from day one, taking radical form in recent year or so (men being violently dragged from streets) 4. Russia has had a single conscription which lasted 3 months. 5. Ukrainians are risking their lives fleeing the country via rivers and mountains. Many escapers were found shot. 6. You can…

Russia has a 3x larger population and so far has had the luxury of being able to pay (relatively) extremely high wages to entice people to go.

Military wages are more or less the same. Russia has 3x more population but we're told that Russia suffers many times bigger losses vs ukrainian.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#597

Post by ajuc »

castigatio wrote: post #592
Etheryte wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a misleading framing. The two cables last year were not taken out by an anchor as an accident, it was literally a ship putting down its anchor just before the cable and then dragging it over the cable. In other words, sabotage. There's no point in trying to color any of this with rose tinted glasses when it's clear who's done it and why.

But this person is just speaking the truth - I worked for an ISP with cable landing stations. These cables went down several times a year due to physical damage of non nefarious kinds. It's not obvious that this malicious. It certainly might be but it's not a slam dunk.

Yeah and if you shoot someone and they die it might be an unrelated heart attack.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#598

Post by esarbe »

vasco wrote: post #567
mciancia wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people are thirsty for War, looks like Russians, yes

I wish I lived in a world where it's so easy to know who is good and who is evil and to pinpoint them so well.

It is easy; nations that attack other nations unprovoked are "evil" (at fault).

Ukraine has never infringed on Russia's sovereignty or territorial integrity before it was attacked. Therefor this war is entirely Russia's fault.

The world is mostly shades of gray. But this case it black and white.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#599

Post by esarbe »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #591
oneshtein wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delivery of Russian gas was stopped by Russia in violation of contract. European gas companies demands $20 billion in compensation. Nobody had incentive to blow up empty pipes except Russia. Of course, Russians used false flag as usual, to blame Ukraine, but Ukraine doesn't hide successful attacks on Russian infrastructure, because Ukraine has legal right to defend itself.

Wait. Wasn't it Ukraine that blew up the pipeline? I'm all for them defending themselves. Are you saying it was actually Russia that did it? They blew up own pipeline?

There's no actual evidence that Ukraine did it, lest alone solid proof.

Russia is a probable candidate.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#600

Post by axpvms »

hackandthink wrote: post #479
trhway wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes. That is why Russia hasn't yet moved, and still looking for a way to do it. Russia is deliberately stuck in the past where for example the "War scare of 1927" laid ground and provided the excuse for the militarization of and repressions in USSR and ultimately to the USSR starting WWII together with and as ally of Hitler. And the first thing USSR did back then in 1939 was the "solution" of the perceived issues of…

The Soviet Union was right to be scared back then. The next invasion from the west happened 1941. And I guess there is still some paranoia in Russia. The NATO Neocons are busy feeding it.

>the next invasion from the west

The invasion from Nazi Germany, the USSR's ally in the invasion of Poland, and the one it signed extensive trade agreements with and helped to avoid sanctions.

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