Earlier quoted context omitted.
drug trade, crypto scam coordination. All on Telegram.
All on a telephone, too.
and probably whatsapp, viber, signal, discord too?
Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
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Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#592A bunch of people in comments here seem to misunderstand what telegram is. It is not just a messaging app, it is essentially a platform like twitter, with channels, hundreds of thousands of subscribers to those. While I fully support E2EE communication with no back-doors, I think it is perfectly fair for governments to have some control to take down large channels that are clearly against the law. I do not know the t…
So you endorse governments from the middle-east being in their right to delete anything they see as "illegal" because they are blasphemous for example?
there is no solution to this. If you want to do business in EU (for example, to be available in EU's Apple Appstore), you have to comply, otherwise Apple will be forced to kick you out, and if they don't, they will be harassed by the authorities until they do. If you want to do business in Saudi Arabia or Turkey or any other country you agree or disagree with, it's the same thing. If Turkey says something is "blasphemous" you either comply or withdraw from Turkey entirely. By now every government that cares has figured out how this works, and it really doesn't matter whether you "endorse" this or not, this is how it works.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#593Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
Free speech is not something they value. Individual rights aren’t valued. Nonsense. Of course Europeans value those things, but they're also mindful of the fact that such freedoms can be abused, sometimes with catastrophic consequences.
beguiling denial.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#594It's all just speculation here. Maybe the French gov knows some stuff we don't. I always found that guy's story of living 'in exile' from Russia a bit suspect. And now Russian government officials are calling for his release. Need more information to make any kind of judgement. What I'm pretty sure of now is that this probably has nothing to do with encryption.
Or maybe the people in French gov are not competent enough. They are the same people as all of us. There is zero special things about them. They just don’t like his “I’m not cooperating with governments” position.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#595Ugh… > Telegram offers end-to-end encrypted messaging […] Yes, just like McDonalds offers salads and other healthy food options.
Underrated analogy
I don't know anyone who uses TG "secret chats". (I tried to convert one friend but then there was some buggy stuff that also lost us long chat history so we reverted)
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#596Telegram has an amazingly fresh UI/UX and interesting channels unlike the ad-ridden, antiquated, repulsive, greedy Facebook or Instagram that hammer you with "recommended posts" and ads until you turn blue in the face. But, ultimately it's just a form of entertainment, so it's ok for it to go. There are other messengers and will be other content platforms. Pavel is smart but somehow completely failed to realize that if your life and your multi-billion-dollar business depends on Europe, you need to shut up and do what they tell you, because you have a lot to lose.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#597Ugh… > Telegram offers end-to-end encrypted messaging […] Yes, just like McDonalds offers salads and other healthy food options.
Underrated analogy I don't know anyone who uses TG "secret chats". (I tried to convert one friend but then there was some buggy stuff that also lost us long chat history so we reverted)
Sad story
I use a single secret chat, probably because I was conditioned by the early https era to like the green lock symbol
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#598According to this source he’s accused in non-cooperating. He’s not accused of terrorism, drug, or slaving directly. Very interesting to see where it will all go. I don’t understand how they’re going to convince French judges that he’s guilty for not being able to decrypt chats that he has no keys for…
> not being able to decrypt chats that he has no keys for… Except he (or his corporation) has keys for almost all initiated chats on the Telegram network. Only the private chats are E2EE and they're not default and rather inconvenient because they don't sync between devices (unlike Signal's E2EE chats).
Not really no.
> To protect the data that is not covered by end-to-end encryption, Telegram uses a distributed infrastructure. Cloud chat data is stored in multiple data centers around the globe that are controlled by different legal entities spread across different jurisdictions. The relevant decryption keys are split into parts and are never kept in the same place as the data they protect. As a result, several court orders from different jurisdictions are required to force us to give up any data.
> Thanks to this structure, we can ensure that no single government or block of like-minded countries can intrude on people's privacy and freedom of expression. Telegram can be forced to give up data only if an issue is grave and universal enough to pass the scrutiny of several different legal systems around the world.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#599According to this source he’s accused in non-cooperating. He’s not accused of terrorism, drug, or slaving directly. Very interesting to see where it will all go. I don’t understand how they’re going to convince French judges that he’s guilty for not being able to decrypt chats that he has no keys for…
My immediate guess is that there’s more. The french secret service strikes me as much more “intelligent” than the US secret service (which I heard is mostly ran by mormons), so I would think this type of move is heavily calculated
This is the same French secret service that bungled the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior ?
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#600Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't tell if it's just uninformed grassroots mistrust of big tech, or the result of astroturf PsyOps to get more people to use the app with weaker encryption.
Encryption is really not the main issue here. I think nerds may not fully grasp Telegram's security model: it's essentially stateless, not tied to any particular country. Its infrastructure is distributed across various jurisdictions, with no official representation in many countries—no subsidiaries, nothing. As a result, it doesn't respond to authorities because it doesn't have to. However, this approach is unsustai…
> That's why he's being accused in France...
Or it could be that he has French citizenship; subject to French law. Spreading your infrastructure across legal jurisdiction doesn't make you stateless - it just ensures you're subject to the laws of each jurisdiction you operate in.