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Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

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Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How’s the stability on Orion lately? I want to use it be plugin compatible was too dicey.

Orion crashed way too often for me. I used Orion for a month or two and switched back to Firefox in early July.

Been using it for months on MacOS without a single crash.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occasionally pushing a bad update is a symptom of having 10x as many Devs pushing 10x as many features each month. Even if Googles QA process was triple as good as Mozilla's, the users would still see more breakage.

I don't think you can scale or compare like that numerically. Every commit isn't a chance for it to break for users because they bundle however many commits into a release and resources required to test the release don't scale per commit.

I think most of the recent breakage has been server side changes and feature flags. Ie "whoops, people who were in this 1% experiment had their browser crash when we pushed an update to the spell check dictionary because we didn't test that combination".

Risks like that scale closer to the number of features/number of Devs, since Devs can be fiddling with server side config outside the release process.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#593
post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there are non-US competitors. Qwant, Mojeek, Seznam... You might reply, "but they're small" or "I haven't heard of them". Well, how do you think that came to be? Besides, I'm replying to a comment about the wider trust case against google. It's not just about search engines.

Seznam took over 10 seconds for me to load start to finish and I'm on gigabit fiber. It has no English language option. Maybe that's why I haven't heard of them? Although Qwant looks kind of nice and obviously localized. I also think it's interesting that I know about Kagi already but don't know about Mojeek despite Kagi using their results. I fully agree that Google is a monopolist that has been oppressing the searc…

DDG have done very well with their marketing.

It may have a lot to do with them not having to develop a search engine from scratch though, since they use the Bing API for their results. Mojeek predates them by some years but does their own crawling/indexing/ranking.

Even Ecosia who are essentially identical on the back-end (Bing results) market themselves on planting trees for every search and I see them mentioned a bunch. Interestingly they don't seem to factor in the energy consumed on Bing's side of the search - where the heavy lifting of data is done.

Also that US investors have a much bigger risk appetite means the likes of Neeva (who IIRC were also using other's results) can spring into existence and seemingly get a love in from the press because of their big tech connection.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've been trying to make a car for the past decade, arguably an easier task than making a search engine.

A car is definitely not easier than a search engine. Also they canceled the car.

that was the point. a car is much easier to make, and they couldn't even do that after 10 years.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#595
post #237

It’s called out that Google pays Mozilla to have Google be the default search engine in Firefox. I worry this ruling will lead to Google ceasing those payments, effectively killing Mozilla as a going concern.

Maybe browsers don't need to be free (or we could have the freedom to pay to avoid potential conflicts of interest).

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#596
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe Mozilla will focus more on Firefox again.

No we won’t. We all knew this gravy train was coming to an end. In terms of revenue it’s ~500M per year/~80-something %. Once this stops, there’s no way for us to keep funding operations at the level they’re at.

> there’s no way for us to keep funding operations at the level they’re at

Good, hopefuilly Mozilla uses this as a chance to strip down all extraneous activities and focus on the core product again.

if $500m is 80% of operating costs, $100m per year sounds fine enough to continue to develop a decent browser.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No body is forced to do anything. Google can just not pay that money and lose that share of the market. They're not doing that because they want to preserve their monopoly status.

This is silly. People are forced to do all kinds of things. They are forced at gunpoint, they are forced via laws, they are forced via incentives that are so strong they may as well be a gun. As are companies. So, in theory, you are wrong. In practice, even more wrong. If management decided to not pay this money, and gave up that positioning to a competitor, they would be fired. If the board allowed it to continue, t…

>No one at google sits around thinking "i want to preserve our monopoly status". They are thinking "I don't want to be crushed by someone"

I guarantee they are thinking both, but both are pretty much the same statment anyway.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#598
post #9
post #4

At the very least, I hope the Apple-Google ~~exclusivity~~ default agreement is revoked. I suppose it’ll take another year to figure out the actual remedies though.

I think a year for the remedies is optimistic - could drag on for a while. Also worth mentioning that it is not an exclusivity agreement - it is a default agreement.

> it is not an exclusivity agreement - it is a default agreement.

But it kind of is an exclusivity agreement. Have you ever tried to change the default search on an iPhone? There is only a very small list of curated searches you are allowed to pick from, and you cant add your own.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#599
post #550
post #31

I expect this to be bad for everyone except Google if the ruling holds. Why? Mozilla and Apple will lose significant revenue from having Google as the default search engine and Google will no longer have to pay those billions. What's more, no one else can pay to be the default either (eg the short-lived Mozilla Bing deal). So what's going to happen? Most users will probably still use Google, nobody is getting paid an…

"They simply have a better product" I disagree. 100% they had a better product, but they have absolutely mangled it over the last few updates. Honestly, if I wanted the opinion of randomnumbers45123 on Reddit, I'd just search Reddit. Google achieved dominance ~25 years ago by being better than the alternatives, and the other search engines pretty much withered away rapidly. They (Google) are in a very precarious posi…

You'd search reddit how? Using their search? Good luck.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#600
post #280

And when we talk about walled garden, fans always said customer chose it. No, customer is dictated. For walled garden owner billion reasons.

The customer in this case is Google, not the users. The users are the product, and apple are selling their eyes for $20 billion a year.
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