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No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#591

Post by mikhael28 »

anonfornoreason wrote: post #248
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s usually what people mean when they use the term “culture war”. If that’s not what they meant, I wonder what is?

I personally prefer another definition of culture war that rises above the ever-changing ground-level arguments. This would be the belief that a person is ultimately responsible for themselves, and any policy or belief that removes that internal locus of control is antithetical to a healthy life and society. I think from here, much of the individual arguments can be classified.

Well, that's a very nuanced and mature view of things, but for most people culture war means 'they different than me - no like!'. Very tribal, usually built around team blue vs team red. Cliches, stereotypes and tropes.

I think the concept you have expressed is simply the struggle for individual rights writ large. The struggle for a man to move through society by his rules, instead of being controlled by his parents, government or religion. Which, until the last few hundred years in certain parts of the world, has not been remotely possible.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#592

Post by com »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #192
toomuchtodo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Institutional housing ownership in the US is not a material contributor to housing price inflation [1]. With that said , we are approaching a housing shortage of +4.5M [2] units, and in concert with YieldStar's Backpage revenue maximization engine [3] (which is laundering landlord price fixing), renters are being squeezed (because where are you going to go if you can't afford to buy? you will pay, or you will be home…

Canadian leaders have finally admitted that high levels of immigration combined with no changes to housing policy has destroyed their affordability. This means immigration policies must be explicitly tied to housing policy if you don’t want to screw over your poor.

Maybe more important over decadal spans:

You also need to align housing policy to demographic changes such as family size, length of time that children remain living with parents, relatives or carers, as well as prevalence of work from home, availability of “local” work within affordable commute range, availability of public transport.

In other words, “planning for the future”.

The neo-liberal project destroyed more than western industries, it bankrupted our perception that there are more than just market incentives that can build healthier, happier, more resilient and, yes, wealthier societies.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#593

Post by codr7 »

squigz wrote: post #411
codr7 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What discrimination of men and women? I think we have to backtrack a bit here, what planet?

Are you being intentionally difficult? What discrimination is this comment thread referring to?

I just find your approach to "discussion" uninteresting, because it's all about you.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#594

Post by robjan »

nradov wrote: post #260
robjan wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the jurisdiction but they are often within their rights to call the loan especially if it goes into negative equity.

Bullshit. US residential mortgages can't be called, even if there's negative equity.

The US isn't the only country in the world

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#595

Post by thewileyone »

nikanj wrote: post #108

We expect young men to grow up and become "husband material". Due to various changes (standards for husbands rising, economic opportunity diminishing), this goal has become clearly unreachable for many. I would opt out if I was a poor young man today, and focus on enjoying the small pleasures (drinking with my buddies, playing PS5). The hill they are expected to climb is ludicrous, and I am not surprised they respond…

Boys today are being left behind because they're not given attention by the school system. That's what I take away from not having any expectations of them.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#596

Post by calf »

rramadass wrote: post #579
calf wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's your opinion what changes are too much, but your metaargument cannot answer that question which makes it sophistry to use the metaargument to argue for political moderation. Also, find a scientist who agrees with you that human values are historically invariant. It's just not true. What's more likely is you are conservative and misusing logical arguments to rationalize your actual political opinion. It's ignoran…

First off, do not insinuate motivations to my comments by using phrases like "you are conservative", "your actual political opinion" etc. (loaded terms in the US and i am not even American) and go off on tangential "strawman" arguments. Also if you don't (or want to) understand something don't use phrases like "metaargument", "sophistry" etc. since they mean nothing. It is ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst.…

You're just doing what conservatives do, act obnoxious when criticized and maximally deny the accusations.

I said you were employing sophistry in your argument and gave a simple explanation why.

I "insinuated" nothing, because I explicitly called you a conservative because the amount of ignorance and sophistry in your position forces me to conclude you must be one, not the other way around.

If you had paid attention and had basic reading comprehension skills (since, like a troll you don't know the difference between "insinuate" and the overt explicit statement about your political biases) , I had originally separated my comment into arguments, separated by paragraph spacing. My second argument (BELOW the blank space) was the conclusion that you must be an ignorant conservative. My first argument (ABOVE the blank space) was simply applying basic critical thinking skills about previous claims. You should focus on that, the substance of criticism, but instead you employ deflection tactics and whine about my deciding that you are a conservative.

Again, all you're preaching with those Wikipedia links is reducible to naive cultural relativism. It is a gross political ideology, employed by the worst: neoliberals. And you don't have to be an American to be one. Clearly your background in philosophy and social studies is in dire need of an update patch, since you are not even aware of this.

And, speaking as an overeducated Asian American with a busy life, I find ignorant discussions about social issues quite tiresome so if you have nothing new beyond your last comment about how much you buy into cultural relativism, please leave me be.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#597

Post by rramadass »

calf wrote: post #596
rramadass wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, do not insinuate motivations to my comments by using phrases like "you are conservative", "your actual political opinion" etc. (loaded terms in the US and i am not even American) and go off on tangential "strawman" arguments. Also if you don't (or want to) understand something don't use phrases like "metaargument", "sophistry" etc. since they mean nothing. It is ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst.…

You're just doing what conservatives do, act obnoxious when criticized and maximally deny the accusations. I said you were employing sophistry in your argument and gave a simple explanation why. I "insinuated" nothing, because I explicitly called you a conservative because the amount of ignorance and sophistry in your position forces me to conclude you must be one, not the other way around. If you had paid attention…

> speaking as an overeducated Asian American

It is only people who are not educated enough that feel the need to call themselves "overeducated". That single phrase tells me all that everybody needs to know about you i.e. a self-aggrandizing "troll" hiding behind anonymity on the Internet.

Given your ignorance (both of the domain knowledge and basic communication etiquette) I had tried to educate you by pointing to actual resources but of course you are incapable to studying/debating them. To say that all are "reducible to naive cultural relativism" is the height of ignorance. Nowhere in any of your comments has there been even a indication of coherent thought and ideas but merely empty verbiage and needless vitriol. You would do well to follow this age-old advice - https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/17/remain-silent/

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#598

Post by thrwwyfrobvrsns »

buzzert wrote: post #498
thrwwyfrobvrsns wrote: post #353

Something that intend to write on someday that I'll excerpt here: the phenomenon of "young men with nothing to do" is driven by a society-wide misallocation of capital that is itself driven by wealth inequality - specifically, old people and elites who command too large a proportion of wealth. This concentration of wealth in the hands of a cohort that is less diverse, and has less diverse interests, than the general…

I'm curious if you could expand—what exactly are these fields that rich old people only care about? Looking at a broad picture of the economy, I'm really not sure this tracks. Lots of capital is being invested into software and AI, for example, which doesn't seem like something "old people" necessarily care about or even understand. In addition, the marijuana industry is now larger than the airline industry.

It's not what they "only" care about, when it comes to investment; it's what they can make money on. Or, rather, what their investment advisers or fund managers think money can be made on, and all the more so if younger investors are shut out.

In software, anyone younger than their mid-30s is late (too young to invest in Apple when it was at lows, Facebook IPO, etc.). AI is just the latest rolling of the software hype trade, with cloud and mobile and crypto and SaaS and more before it. And investors don't have to understand marijuana to know that being at the ground floor of an industry that's high-demand, low-supply-by-regulatory-capture would be incresibly lucrative; they piled into ownership (not stock, which was a pump-and-dump for suckers) while indie growers were shut out.

But the crux of the issue isn't simply that they like these investments. It's that they'll cannibalize everything else to prop up their chosen champions. Ironically, the mass tech layoffs of the past couple years are an example, with hundreds of thousands of workers sacrificed to keep companies not just solvent, but "growing" on paper. The post-COVID "boom" that funded their positions was misallocated capital that could have gone towards jobs that were actually sustainable; those people would still be gainfully employed, rather than unemployed or underemployed as they are now.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#599

Post by foverzar »

jjk166 wrote: post #553
illiac786 wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not what the parent wrote. Not having a yacht is not like “having a worse yacht by xyz criteria”, hence that comparison just does not work. There is always a family. I personally agree with the parent here, it might be helpful to read the article again.

Okay fine. Rich people say your car doesn't need to be a Lamborghini, a Toyota Corolla is fine. Yet, rich people buy Lamborghinis. A Toyota Corolla is a worse car by xyz criteria. Clearly having a better car is very important for becoming and staying rich, and the wealthy are undermining the poor with their "you don't need a sports car" posturing. I think it would be helpful for you to reread the article, specificall…

> Yet, rich people buy Lamborghinis.

Do they really? Seems more like a case for wannabe rich people.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#600

Post by keybored »

mistermann wrote: post #588
keybored wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assert that there is no good evidence that it is true and that in lieu of good evidence it’s a limiting perspective to propagate. I know how the real world works and am not fooled by the bread and circus—of course I am! :) And how often do I reveal that in real life? Very rarely because I don’t have any sympaticos in my life right now. But how many people do I know who are like me? And to how many people do I look…

> I assert that there is no good evidence that it is true And what evidence could you provide (say, a description of your methodology, hours of search, resources searched, notes you've taken along the way, etc) can you offer to support your "is no good (how convenient) evidence"? > It’s a limiting perspective because you stay stuck in the mode of bickering among yourselves about who has seen the light and who hasn’t.…

> And what evidence could you provide (say, a description of your methodology, hours of search, resources searched, notes you've taken along the way, etc) can you offer to support your "is no good (how convenient) evidence"?

What evidence do I have prepared for random strangers on the Internet who are as disagreeable as me? None!

I will protest bare (uncited, shooting from the hips) “common wisdom” and counter with my own uncited perspective; mine is on the face of it no less wrong!

Why the hell would I just let such misanthropic, holier-than-thou garbage philosophies remain unexamined?!

EDIT: Three sentences in a row with exclamation marks might have been overkill. :smile:

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