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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#591
post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if both parties have declared war against each other, I think it's fair to call it a war. Besides, does it matter what you call it? It's a war for all intents and purposes. Every war/invasion/special military operation is seemingly a "The good guys (me) against the bad guys/terrorists (you)" conflict, and if that's not war, I'm not sure what is.

You cannot declare war on a territory you occupy and control. It is as if the United States declared war on Washington DC or any of their numerous prisons.

Would it not be a _civil_ war?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#592
post #458
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has ordered hospitals to evacuate, e.g.: https://healthpolicy-watch.news/who-calls-for-israel-to-resc... I think you're generally wrong on the "they have not been doing" comment. Israel has been giving warnings, and those warnings were intentionally being ignored to maximize the damage to Israel's reputation. But if you have some comprehensive data here I'd be interested in seeing it. From my observation the p…

> Israel did demand that the entirety of Northern Gaza be evacuated from civilians (including those "camps" you mention, more below, and including all those hospitals) Evacuated to where, exactly?

Southern Gaza, Israel considers a part of Southern Gaza an humanitarian zone and dropped fliers explaining that.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#593
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have an interest in this conflict that is not the same as Israel's. You are quite right, Israel's interest is to kill and displace the Palestinians, crush them as a people. Very few human right groups would have an interest that aligns with that.

what is "Israel"? are you referring to the people of Israel? Do you believe that 9 million Israelis have interest of killing and displacing Palestinians and crush them as a people? and what interest Palestinians have in regard to Israelis from your point of view?

Going by Israeli TV, Telegram channels and polls, unfortunately it really does seem like a large proportion of Israelis think of Palestinians as sub-human bugs to be crushed.

Already we've seen settlers building an "outpost" inside Gaza, while Israeli soldiers watch on. Meanwhile, Israeli civilians block aid to starving children, again while the IDF watch.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#595
post #61
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unfounded. I'm still waiting on a single shred of evidence to drop about the AP building from 2-3 years ago https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israe... > Which unfortunately means prohibitions on bombing hospitals, schools and places of worship are now obsolete. Even if Hamas was fighting from hospitals and schools that is not how this works. Israel would be required to give those schools…

Israel has ordered hospitals to evacuate, e.g.: https://healthpolicy-watch.news/who-calls-for-israel-to-resc... I think you're generally wrong on the "they have not been doing" comment. Israel has been giving warnings, and those warnings were intentionally being ignored to maximize the damage to Israel's reputation. But if you have some comprehensive data here I'd be interested in seeing it. From my observation the p…

> Israel did demand that the entirety of Northern Gaza be evacuated from civilians

Yes, they have repeatedly dropped leaflets telling civilians to move to "safe" areas - and have repeatedly proceeded to bomb those areas.

> including those "camps" you mention

Like the one where an Israeli tank drove over inhabited tents?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the law permits thousands of innocents to be slaughtered, then maybe it needs to change.

GP is wrong. There is the law of proportionality in the Geneva Conventions which requires "that the expected incidental harm is not excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage." >The word to pay attention to here is "military advantage" - i.e. "military value" of the target. Seeing a "hamas" go into a hospital or a rocket being fired from it doesn't give Israel the green light to bomb it. While there…

*>When we compare the intensity of atrocity committed by the Israelis, to those in other recent conflicts - Mosul, Homs, Mariupol, Grozny, Yemen- the israelis sails past them all with a healthy margin.

According to Ukrainian sources, at least 25,000 people died in the siege of Mariupol over the course of less than three months. The current conflict in Gaza is grave, but it is not incomparable or unprecedented.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63536564

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#597

[flagged]

No, this is propaganda - every MSM outlets appends that biased "disclaimer" to every story they run on Gaza. Do they append "according to US-backed Israel" when parroting Israeli propaganda verbatim? No.

And still, the UN says the Hamas' numbers are realistic, and the Lancet says they are realistic[0].

Meanwhile, some parts of the IDF claim every death of a military-age male was the death of a "terrorist".

[0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Even accepting that, you can ask what is the limit after which you can say that the occupied does morally reprehensible things

How about when the occupier does morally reprehensible things? how should you react? turn the other cheek? Thank you sir, may I have another...

(https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc....)

Notably:

The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that:

The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.

Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period.

The occupying power must respect the laws in force in the occupied territory, unless they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the international law of occupation.

The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.

To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation.

The population in occupied territory cannot be forced to enlist in the occupier's armed forces.

Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.

Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.

Collective punishment is prohibited.

The taking of hostages is prohibited.

Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited.

The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.

The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities.

Cultural property must be respected.

People accused of criminal offences shall be provided with proceedings respecting internationally recognized judicial guarantees (for example, they must be informed of the reason for their arrest, charg ed with a specific offence and given a fair trial as quickly as possible).

Personnel of the International Red Cross/Red Crescent Movement must be allowed to carry out their humanitarian activities. The ICRC, in particular, must be given access to all protected persons, wherever they are, whether or not they are deprived of their liberty.

None of which are being respected.... so I ask again, who is morally reprehensible? and if you are referring to the debunked lies about october 7th, I urge you to read up

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#599

Is it appropriate to call this a war? To me it seems more like a nation state fighting a terrorist group, with heavy civilian losses.

> fighting a terrorist group

If you occupy territories for decades, with notable differences in the rights of those occupied, you get an insurgency. To me, "terrorism" doesn't really describe the situation well. There have certainly been specific incidents that fit that label, but plenty that look a lot more like plain old rebellion. There have also been acts from the Israelis that could be looked at as terroristic, if you subscribe to the definition of using violence and intimidation for political gain.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why did they take hostages to begin with. And why did they take them past perfectly fine hospitals? There was no risk.

> Why did they take hostages to begin with

Hamas stated their aim very clearly - to have Israeli hostages to trade for the thousands of Palestinian hostages that are held in Israeli dungeons.

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